A Mayday, really?

jonjo5 said:
Yet in your little world of "no one can pass comment on any sailing matter that interests me" you have determined that this thread should not exist and I am a grandstanding idiot.

One wonders why you bother to participate in this forum unless it is to grandstand and provide the definitive unquestionable holy thn thou advice on all sailing matters.
Click to expand...

You have said it - and I agree. You are grandstanding. Of course the issue is worth discussing - and has been discussed here many times.

My objection is first trying to draw a conclusion from a half baked account of a minor mistake by a person you do not know in a situation that you have constructed in a way that suits your prejudice. Then get all huffy because others point out that you might just be wrong in your conclusions. I am afraid it is you that has the "holier than thou" attitude.

Of course the rescue services would prefer not to get called out for trivial reasons - but that goes with the territory and in this case, even from the partial information available it was not trivial. Your beef is that he used a Mayday instead of a lower priority call, but as suggested by others that is hardly a hanging offence and best dealt with by education. Note that (from what we have seen) the CG did have an exchange with the boat so was well aware of the situation - and you were not, you only had your construction of what was going on. It is their decision on how to deal with it, not yours. Doubt that they gave a moment's thought to what their legal obligation was under international law nor how other states would deal with a similar situation. They have a protocol for how to deal with incidents and followed it.

As for all the nonsense about international shipping withdrawing from the UK, lifeboat crew businesses suffering financial difficulties or NHS operation being cancelled as a consequence of somebody using the wrong calling protocol - well one wonders what planet you are on.

As to how the CG and RNLI respond, I fail to see why they should lower their standards to match the worst in the world as you suggest. They have chosen to work in the way that they do because they aim to provide the best rescue services they can within the resources available. Do you really want to live in a world where making a mistake in the protocol for asking for assistance is a criminal offence?

I live in a big wide world of tolerance and respect for others - even when they make mistakes, not the narrow bigoted one that you seem to inhabit. Threads like this one are always fun to read as they seem to bring out both the best and worst in people. I leave you to decide where your contributions fall.
 
jonjo5 said:
So was I, anyhow a useful mechanism for smoking out the dull boy in the classroom.
Click to expand...

The thread that just keeps on giving the laughs!

A poster drips about someone failing to observe the Wireless Telegraphy Act of 2006 whilst failing to observe the Wireless Telegraphy At of 2006.

You are a card!

;)
 
Tell us Capnsensible, do you have a view on how the RNLI are used or will your only contribution to this thread be snide remarks about those that do?
 
jonjo5 said:
I overheard the Solent CG side of the conversation relating to a mayday today.

My first thought was given the settled weather it must be fire onboard, water ingress or a medical emergency.
Next given the vague details I thought perhaps a school holiday VHF prank, but no the dialogue continued.

Eventually Solent CG confirmed a 34ft sailing yacht with engine failure a few miles off Ventnor. Shaking my head I continued on to Portsmouth in a useful breeze and assumed there was a subtext that explained the serverity of the distress. But no, that was it.

http://www.bembridgelifeboat.org.uk/news/april-2016

I wish the Solent CG operatives had the maritime common sense to tell people not to use the RNLI as a subscription-free alternative to Seastart.
Click to expand...

Dont be so judgemental! You dont know the skill level or experience or the sailing capabilities of the boat concerned. You were a beginner once.
 
dom said:
Hang on guys! First capnsensible, that yorker you bowled at 8:20 was bang out of order. Play commences at 11:00am, followed by lunch at 12:00, tea at 3:40 and so on.

And I notice Tranona was sneaking around the pitch at 00:15, pitch tampering I imagine, tut tut.

May I suggest this link :rolleyes:: http://cricket-rules.com/
Click to expand...

Tops! I am one hour ahead though and in a place where rescue has to be paid for.......:cool:

What about the Colombian Women dating though?
 
Triassic said:
I think the RNLI is a magnificent organisation and I have nothing but admiration for their crews that put themselves at peril in order to save lives. We are incredibly lucky to have them and I don't think we do ourselves any favours by abusing the service they provide.
Click to expand...

No-one is abusing the RNLI's services. It doesn't work like that.

If a lifeboat is requested by CG, then it is just that - a request. The incident is put to the LB station ops manager, who is well within his rights to decline the launch - and I have known them do just that. There were two LOMs on our old patch that were notoriously difficult to convince that a launch was needed.
 
birdseye said:
Dont be so judgemental! You dont know the skill level or experience or the sailing capabilities of the boat concerned. You were a beginner once.
Click to expand...

Indeed - we were all beginners once .. and I'd have no issue with anyone calling up CG or whoever to report a mechanical issue that may cause issues ...
But to get your sailing boat off Ventnor - have engine failure (fixed reportedly easily by the LB mech) and declare a mayday is perhaps lowering standards a bit to far ..

I think the OP is trying to address the seemingly increasing number of people who go boating and expect any catastrophie* to be resolved instantly by the RNLI after a mayday call ...
* a catastrophie being anything from a broken finger nail to dropping a fender overboard ...

I know the RNLI would rather attend a shout than leave it until it was too late and I commend them for that stance. The CG may well carry out a bit of onshore education after the event - but there's nothing wrong with us - the boating community - discussing the issue of increasing lack of skills on here - as if it's left unchecked it will eventually affect us all - probably through compulsory training and licencing.
 
fireball said:
....but there's nothing wrong with us - the boating community - discussing the issue of increasing lack of skills on here - as if it's left unchecked it will eventually affect us all - probably through compulsory training and licencing.
Click to expand...

Agreed, the key word here is discussing, which doesn't require the OP or anyone else to back up every point/idea/musing with the level of evidence that would stand up in court. After all this is not some sort of quasi-judicial system.

And yes if we don't get our act together something will eventually give, of course it will.
 
dom said:
Agreed, the key word here is discussing, which doesn't require the OP or anyone else to back up every point/idea/musing with the level of evidence that would stand up in court. After all this is not some sort of quasi-judicial system.
Click to expand...
Exactly - so it doesn't matter if the 34' sailing yacht skipper in question was a YM or someone who bought the boat off ebay having only ever skippered a duck in the bath before ...
Result is - he called a Mayday for something that in all probability didn't justify a mayday call. We can only speculate on his (un)rational for doing so - unless one of us is that skipper .... !

dom said:
And yes if we don't get our act together something will eventually give, of course it will.
Click to expand...
So what can we - the boating community - do about it?

Well - perhaps the Mags could do an article on emergency procedures?
Perhaps we could discuss the likely problems with the engine and how to fix - quickly and easily.
Perhaps we could discuss successful anchoring when no mechanical propulsion is available?
and of course, assuming that it would've resuted in a slow sail - what emergency provisions do you have on board? Or do you even bother? After all, if you don't eat for a few hours you're hardly likely to starve - however, lack of food can impare judgement ...

In discussing this, we're just hoping that the next skipper who may find themselves in a similar situation reads it - or perhaps participates too - and thinks before raising that mayday call - of course, if it is genuninely a mayday - eg the boat is about to be swept across shallow rocks - then raise it PDQ ... !

FWIW - I have heard Solent CG ask a VHF mayday caller if their engine failure in the eastern solent, sunny day with a F3 wind was really a mayday - in a rather exasperated voice!
 
At the very least the magazines and the RYA could remind leisure boaters that the lightweight Maydays tollerated in the UK might result on a Court summonds if they try it on in foreign waters.

I am not sure there is much else we can do, the blocker to progress is the entrenched belief at UK CG that a Mayday cannot be challenged and only the skipper can retract it. Rather than criminlizing frivolous Maydays as per foreign practice the best compromise would be CG coordinated commercial tows. Once the word gets out that hapless seamanship could cost £500 in towing fees, people will see sense in smartening the own act and changing fuel filters each season.
 
birdseye said:
Dont be so judgemental! You dont know the skill level or experience or the sailing capabilities of the boat concerned. You were a beginner once.
Click to expand...
If a spotty youth without a driving licence lost control of a car and careered onto your front garden and then got trapped in the car, and then in the ensuing rescue the emergency services wrecked your lawn and demolished your rose garden, I bet you would be judgemental.

So why in the maritime environent when we are possibly discussing the competence of a nice middle class chap who recently retired, why are you so understanding?
 
dom said:
if we don't get our act together something will eventually give, of course it will.
Click to expand...

You make 2 assumptions:
1. The number of maydays made where there exists no appreciable threat to life is increasing to the extent that it will cause the current rescue framework to break down soon enough to worry about
2. "We" (you and other posters here?) can avert this if we "get our act together"

What is your evidence that there *is* a rapidly increasing incidence of maydays which don't involve threat to life? There's been the occasional call on the radio where I've privately thought "that doesn't sound too serious" (although cognisant of the fact that I neither have all the information nor am seeing it with the skipper in question's panicked eyes) for as long as I've been sailing a boat with a VHF. I'm not *aware* of the agencies which do have accurate stats flagging up a problem that such calls are straining the system or increasing. That's not to say such evidence of a problem doesn't exist: if anyone has stats for this, do post.

On the second point, I'm honestly not sure how I or other posters here should change our behaviour to help avert this crisis. Chat to people we meet on the pontoon about their radio protocol and hand out leaflets? What do you intend to do?
 
jonjo5 said:
Rather than criminlizing frivolous Maydays as per foreign practice the best compromise would be CG coordinated commercial tows. Once the word gets out that hapless seamanship could cost £500 in towing fees, people will see sense in smartening the own act and changing fuel filters each season.
Click to expand...
The counter to that is that it may result in some situations that end up worse - possibily including fatalities - just because the skipper doesn't want a £500 towing fee ... which I think thats what the CG and RNLI would prefer to avoid - which is why they'd attend a frivolous shout before it became urgent - I can see their point, but they must also know that it's a fine line between a preventative rescue and a towing service.

Plenty of calls go out from the CG in the summer for "Any vessel in the vicinity of XXX able to give a tow to YYY" ... so the CG aren't just tasking the RNLI all the time. I guess in the OP's case - having heard only the one side of the conversation - he couldn't assertain why the boat couldn't be sailed - I've had a couple of occaisions where I'd prefer a tow if the engine had failed as the passengers onboard were a handful with just the engine on - not being rude about them and very happy to have them on board - but sailing those days was definately not an option ...
 
laika said:
You make 2 assumptions:
1. The number of maydays made where there exists no appreciable threat to life is increasing to the extent that it will cause the current rescue framework to break down soon enough to worry about

What is your evidence that there *is* a rapidly increasing incidence of maydays which don't involve threat to life? There's been the occasional call on the radio where I've privately thought "that doesn't sound too serious" (although cognisant of the fact that I neither have all the information nor am seeing it with the skipper in question's panicked eyes) for as long as I've been sailing a boat with a VHF. I'm not *aware* of the agencies which do have accurate stats flagging up a problem that such calls are straining the system or increasing. That's not to say such evidence of a problem doesn't exist: if anyone has stats for this, do post.
Click to expand...
Solent in the Summer ... I haven't listened in for the last 2 years, but before then it was quite normal to hear a Mayday ... a few of those were questionable - it's been said that using a Mayday call when it isn't devalues the term and I'm inclined to agree .. like with Radio Checks ... once you hear one, a few more come a long and soon enough everyone is doing one as "that's the done thing" ... do that with Maydays and the already busy Solent VHF will become clogged with with non-mayday shouts. It's said that you don't get Radio checks outside the Solent - why's that then?

laika said:
2. "We" (you and other posters here?) can avert this if we "get our act together"

On the second point, I'm honestly not sure how I or other posters here should change our behaviour to help avert this crisis. Chat to people we meet on the pontoon about their radio protocol and hand out leaflets? What do you intend to do?
Click to expand...
Already address with some options - there's no magic answer and it's not going to be fixed "once and for all" because there are always new people coming into sailing and always people who are more panicy than others.
General conversation about it will increase awareness of the potential issues and quite frankly I don't know a single person who would rather be rescued than be able to fix the problem themselves. Being towed in by the RNLI is hardly a badge of honour ... however, I wouldn't begrudge a tow to anyone genuinely in need.
 
One answer is compulsory certification before one can skipper a leisure craft. Seeing some of the numpties around, I don't think that's a bad idea.
 
One other memory came back to me, the late Tome of this parish, drifting up and down for 3 days in a windless channel between the shipping lanes trying to fix his knackered engine, before the wind picked up enough for him to sail home. True story.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top