A Mayday, really?

[Triassic]

....Same result, it's the CG that make the call to launch not the RNLI, I asked the crew if they minded, "No, we love it . It's often a race to try and get on the launch." was the response.

Which would be fine if they had unlimited funding and resources.....

Along with many others on here I support the RNLI on the basis that I am contributing to an organisation that's purpose is to save lives, not to act as a breakdown service for those who are not, or likely to be, in imminent danger. If individuals lack either the seamanship skills or the inclination to resolve simple and predictable problems themselves then it is not unreasonable to expect them to make some contribution to those that they subsequently impose themselves on.

I don't know enough about the location or the specific circumstances prevailing at the time to pass judgement on this example however I do feel justified in saying that we should be challenging those that appear to be advocating it is wrong to question these apparently unnecessary or inappropriate deployments.

Perhaps if the CG were challenged on why they felt it necessary to call an emergency service in these situations they would be more inclined to consider it's necessity. At the moment it very much appears their attitude is "problem passed, problem solved".

It reminds me of those individuals that call for an ambulance to take them to hospital in none emergency situations and when challenged say "why should I have to pay for a taxi....".

 

[Giblets]

As the yacht was met at Haslar Marina by one of the local CG units I would imagine the skipper was probably spoken to regarding the correct VHF emergency procedure.

 

[fireball]

I had 2 boats with them when based in the Solent. I wonder how many of those on this thread criticising a yacht for being towed in by the RNLI are members...

Never bothered - we had sailing boats ... twice we had mech propulsion failure - first time the propshaft had detached from the back of the gearbox - sailed back to the mooring and sorted it later. Second time I'd forgotten to open the raw water valve - picked up a mooring and sorted it pdq.

A friend swapped out an impellor whilst "drifting" in the middle of the solent - think that was the second time he'd done it too ...

IMHO theres very few times when mechanical propulsion failure would be a Mayday call ... but it's easy to panic and place that call when what you really need to do is put the kettle on and have a think.

the fact that the skipper of the boat managed to fix the engine on the way back to portsmouth suggests that it was a reasonably straight forward fix - every skipper should be able to do basic troubleshooting and maintenance on their vessel.
I'll forgive the skipper whose gearbox fell apart resulting in us towing them into the StPeterPort in no wind ... although there's not much to forgive - they didn't place any VHF call for assistance at all ... just accepted our offer as we passed.

 

[Aardee]

They probably called a Mayday to differentiate themselves from the seemingly endless calls for a radio check...

 

[Giblets]

The fact that the skipper of the boat managed to fix the engine on the way back to Portsmouth suggests that it was a reasonably straight forward fix - every skipper should be able to do basic troubleshooting and maintenance on their vessel.

I think that it was the lifeboat mechanic who was put aboard at Bembridge who managed to sort out the problem.

 

[fireball]

I think that it was the lifeboat mechanic who was put aboard at Bembridge who managed to sort out the problem.

It still suggests that it was a reasonably straight foward fix - of course, it may not have been and the mechanic could've done something more complex ... but most yacht engines are reasonably straight forward and breakdowns are usually down to fuel starvation or overheating - both can be fixed realively easily.

eg We had an overheating engine on a flotilla holiday - the revs were just too high for the cooling system to cope with - the flotilla mech looked at it but couldn't do a fix there and then so we were told to run a 500rpm less ... I tried leaving the companionway steps out (thus giving more air around the engine) and was able to run it at the previously "overheating" speed (we had quite a distance to go in no wind and rapidly disappearing light!). I guess there was too much crud in the system - on the go fix not being possible in the timescales given.

 

[[70521]]

Have you ever been gainfully employed in a useful job?

Yes, for the last 30 years I have been a practicing professional engineer AND was a member of a Mountain Rescue Team for five years, so do speak with some experience of being a volunteer responding to "shouts".

Perhaps one of the RNLI crew works in local light industry and as a result an international order will be dispatched a day late and the business will fail to get the next contract.

Perhaps another crew member is an NHS theatre technition and a surgeon decided to cancel an op due to an incomplete team.

I was always given the choice to respond to a shout and am sure that RNLI crew have the same option.

 

[Tranona]

I'm struggling to understand what the point of this thread is. Is the OP proposing that we should engage in collective action to petition the coastguard to respond differently to maydays in order to make life easier for RNLI volunteers? If so I strongly suspect that the RNLI and coastguard engage in frequent dialogue to ensure that they work optimally together. Moreover they have rather better stats on both sides of Mayday calls than we probably do. If not...what is being asked/proposed exactly?

There is no point - just an opportunity for a bit of grandstanding for some. Interesting how, once their holier than thou attitude has been questioned they go off into the realms of fantasy speculating on the dire things that might happen to UK industry, shipping, NHS etc if this kind of behaviour of which they disapprove continues.

Obviously learning from "fear" campaigning over the referendum.

Personally I would much rather leave it to the coastguard to make those decisions on our behalf - that is what they are trained for and we pay them to do.

 

[l'escargot]

There is no point - just an opportunity for a bit of grandstanding for some. Interesting how, once their holier than thou attitude has been questioned they go off into the realms of fantasy speculating on the dire things that might happen to UK industry, shipping, NHS etc if this kind of behaviour of which they disapprove continues.

Obviously learning from "fear" campaigning over the referendum.

Personally I would much rather leave it to the coastguard to make those decisions on our behalf - that is what they are trained for and we pay them to do.

I think there are some prime examples of the over inflated view some leisure sailors have of their own importance and their impact on the marine world whilst indulging in their hobby...

 

[Lyndsey Doyle]

Good afternoon, the CG can launch a lifeboat to tow you in, even if you make it clear that you don't need assistance.

The CG doesn't do any one any favours by ignoring phrases I transmitted on VHF such as, "just to inform you..", "this is not a distress call", etc, and scrambling highly-trained RNLI volunteers to tow in a sailing vessel with a broken gearbox in sunny, calm conditions, nowhere near any TSS's etc.

I presume things will get sillier, with CG's based in a call centre and possibly never even having seen the sea except on Youtube.
Next time, if poss, I will call Coastwatch volunteers first, more chance of common sense.
Enjoy the sun LD

 

[chanelyacht]

Which demonstrates the sense of involving the CG early on - they can see events developing that others often can't and take steps to prevent the situation worsening whilst it is sorted out...

The OP seems to forget that if the vessel in distress issued a mayday call, then until the skipper agrees to downgrade, it IS a mayday. That's not CG procedure, it's international law.

I've handled calls like that where in the ops room we don't class it a mayday, and people on here probably wouldn't - but if the skipper has declared one, that's how SOLAS dictates any country deals with the incident.

 

[chanelyacht]

I presume things will get sillier, with CG's based in a call centre and possibly never even having seen the sea except on Youtube.

Then you utterly fail to understand how the CG are trained and how the system works.

There are 11 CG coordination centres, only one for example is inland (by 2 miles).

 

[jonjo]

The OP seems to forget that if the vessel in distress issued a mayday call, then until the skipper agrees to downgrade, it IS a mayday. That's not CG procedure, it's international law.

I've handled calls like that where in the ops room we don't class it a mayday, and people on here probably wouldn't - but if the skipper has declared one, that's how SOLAS dictates any country deals with the incident.

Correction this is how British authorities choose to interpret international law and then act, other countries choose a more sane approach to the same problem.

Would Britain have ended up in Court if yesterday Solent CG had replied, "we have assessed your situation and believe your are not in immediate danger, we are advising traffic of your situation, online weather stations indicate a fresh westerly breeze of 15knots will arrive at your location within a few hours. Suggest you sail up the eastern side of the IoW when the tide turns east. Would you like us to arrange a commercial tow into port from 2 miles off Portsmouth?".

 

[jonjo]

Good afternoon, the CG can launch a lifeboat to tow you in, even if you make it clear that you don't need assistance.

The CG doesn't do any one any favours by ignoring phrases I transmitted on VHF such as, "just to inform you..", "this is not a distress call", etc, and scrambling highly-trained RNLI volunteers to tow in a sailing vessel with a broken gearbox in sunny, calm conditions, nowhere near any TSS's etc.

I presume things will get sillier, with CG's based in a call centre and possibly never even having seen the sea except on Youtube.
Next time, if poss, I will call Coastwatch volunteers first, more chance of common sense.

I assume you believe yourself to be a victim of Britain's overzealous, risk adverse, health and safety culture, in this case the Coastguard. I can only empathize. On the upside things are improving at Solent CG since the move to the inshore centre formed after merging of other stations. The CG service was in a poor state 10 years ago with too many small stations scattered long the Channel coast, they were undestaffed and underpaid. The low point was the strikes about 8 years ago.

I agree 100% about Coastwatch, excellent people who have filled in the visual observation role abandonned by the offcial CG. I was the first person to report here back in 2008 about my positive impressions of Coastwatch following a random visit to their Fowey hut. It is great to see how Coastwatch have expanded in the following years and also the formal integration with Solent CG.

The only cloud on the horizon is that like yourself, people will turn to Coastwatch in preference believing they will think through a problem unlike the official Coastguard. This could lead to crossed wires, so it is now incumbent on the official Coastguard to up their game else there will be further rounds of contraction and redundencies. To preserve its future the Coastguard needs to add value beyond a basic 999 answering service and droid-like adherance to a computer scripted dialogue.

 

[jimi]

Yes indeed. Some posters here appear to be unaware the world is a competetive place.

If British sea areas are mismanaged there could be long term negative consequences. The afore mentioned Indian merchant mariner was highly cordial and proffesional in his VHF dialogue, my hunch is that he is the sort of chap with positive career velocity. In 10 years time he might be an executive in a shipping company deciding whether to close down his Southampton or Le Harve operations, then he will think back to all those junk VHF Maydays while anchored at Nab and say "the Brits don't know how to operate their area anymore, so we'll close down Southampton and renew the lease on the French side".

OTOH the rescuee might in a couple of years be a head of a mega corporation and decide to relocate all the outsourced offshore call centres back to S Wales cos he was so impressed by the UK's responsiveness to him when he was in a spot of bother. Thhis is fun, how many such scenarios can we think up ;-)

 

[l'escargot]

OTOH the rescuee might in a couple of years be a head of a mega corporation and decide to relocate all the outsourced offshore call centres back to S Wales cos he was so impressed by the UK's responsiveness to him when he was in a spot of bother. Thhis is fun, how many such scenarios can we think up ;-)

Perhaps it was Raj the local crab fisherman who was bored and thought he'd have laugh... :encouragement:

 

[laika]

Would Britain have ended up in Court if yesterday Solent CG had replied, "we have assessed your situation and believe your are not in immediate danger, we are advising traffic of your situation, online weather stations indicate a fresh westerly breeze of 15knots will arrive at your location within a few hours. Suggest you sail up the eastern side of the IoW when the tide turns east. Would you like us to arrange a commercial tow into port from 2 miles off Portsmouth?".

I'm still not clear what your objective is. Are you saying that you know better what's best for the RNLI than the RNLI and coastguard do? That the coastguard/MCA don't ever talk to the RNLI but call them out to the extent that their resources are stretched impossibly thinly? Has anyone in the RNLI indicated to you that that is the case?

To respond directly to the above assertion you're saying that you want every distress call assessed (by someone intimately familiar with sailing yachts in the area?) and for the coastguard to suggest an action plan to the caller that doesn't involve the RNLI unless unavoidable. I'm assuming that the RNLI/MCA/Coastguard don't believe that that's the best way forward. My inclination is to believe that policymakers within those bodies know more about maritime safety than I do, and probably more than most forumites do.

 

[jonjo]

There is no point - just an opportunity for a bit of grandstanding for some. Interesting how, once their holier than thou attitude has been questioned they go off into the realms of fantasy speculating on the dire things that might happen to UK industry, shipping, NHS etc if this kind of behaviour of which they disapprove continues.

The fantasy was a mechanism to remind people that even though an RNLI launch is free from the perspective of the CG and the consumer at sea, there might be real imposition and cost for the volunteer crew. Plainly some here cannot percieve this fact, hence the need for dramatic illustration.

Maybe you think an RNLI crew is comprised of unemployed fishermen and other musclebound oiks who cannot gain employment in the modern economy, I in contrast view them and their time with more respect.

As to "grandstanding", that's rich from the forum member who never misses an opportunity to remind us how many new yachts he has purchased in his sailing career.

 

[Sybarite]

For me the only point at issue was that it was a PanPan and not a Mayday.

 

[dogleg]

Maybe you think an RNLI crew is comprised of unemployed fishermen and other musclebound oiks who cannot gain employment in the modern economy, I in contrast view them and their time with more respect.

In 35 years there have been occasions when through work \I could not go on a call, equally there were crew who could, all stations know that some crew are limited in their availability which is why we have over 20 on our crew, each crew member makes their own decision when the pager goes (in my case for many years it was maroons) whether to attend or not.