A friend looking to buy a Merry Fisher 925.

[A_8]

Owning a Jeanneau and having bought it in the UK myself I am helping with the search and evaluation. He is looking for a clean, well kept and cared for with one VP engine around £50K.

Suggestions on what to look out for from current or previous owners is welcome and if you have one and want to sell feel free to PM me.

Thanks/
Michael

 

[A_8]

Apparently not a popular topic...100+ views but no response. I seem to remember there have been a few owners and opinions around this boat in the past so please feel free to share your views and experience.

There is a bit of confusion around fuel consumption, we've googled as best we can and with the KAD300 I conclude it tops at 25 knots and should get to around 2ltr per nm at 18 knots, I find that to be quite high given one engine and the size of boat. My P34 is twin engined KAD43 on outdrives topping at 34-35 knots but only 25% more fuel per nm.

I am thinking that 18 knots may be a bit too much for the semi displacement MF925 hull and perhaps its sweet spot is a bit lower like maybe 15-16 knots, anyone care to share their experience on this?

Or to help us make an assessment, at what rpm will the boat perform at 7, 15, 18 and 25 knots?

My friend has a limited budget, lives on an island outside Gothenburg in Sweden and needs a boat to take him on and off the island all year around in sheltered waters and during the summer a few recreational trips for extended weekends, maybe up to 10 days. It needs to be easy access on and off the foredeck as well as being reasonably economical to maintain and use ie one engine.
Suggestions on other boats worth considering is most welcome.

 

[mikemcgregor]

I also have been waiting for a response to your post as I am seriously looking at a 2005 MF925 with 2 x VP D3 diesel. My current boat is a Cranchi pelican 32 fitted with 2 x VP DPH legs. I want to downsize to a more suitable boat to use in the UK. The Cranchi is fine for the Med but as I will be relocating to the Norfolk Broads in a couple of years a more enclosed environment would be better.

There is'nt much info on Google about the 925 so lets hope someone with experience of the 925 sees our posts and helps out.

cheers

 

[Nautibusiness]

MF925 is a practical no nonsense cruiser.
It will cruise at up to 18 knots, but the hull needs to be clean and the boat loaded well and fairly light.
Best engine (re power to weight) was the Nanni 320 and worst, rather unsurprisingly was the D4.260. The boat simply needed more power.
Twin engine boats were hugely less popular. Perhaps ten to one.
My only experience directly was with one with 2x tamd31s and the boat was frankly lazy and too heavy to handle nicely.

The Kamd300 burns about 8gph at cruising revs which assume is 18 knots. This equates to 2lpnm.
Reality with a normal load is to expect more line 2.25lpnm.

She will do 25 knots light, downhill, with the wind behind on handover day.
Engine options vary, but normally loaded expect 19 to 23 knots at wot.

 

[A_8]

Thanks Nautibusiness, so its a bit worse than I thought. Do you know if fuel efficiency gets better at 15 knots or would it be about the same?

Also I noticed not all of them have an equipped flybridge, how would you say that affects value? Or do you know how much more £ the flybridge option was when new?

 

[Spi D]

If you use yachtworld.com to get an overview of trends, you'll see asking prices in these ranges:

2004 £47584
2004 £50005
2004 £57000
2004 £59000
2004 £61000
2004 £83439
2005 £52995
2005 £54750
2005 £54995
2005 £57500
2005 £57995
2005 £59950
2005 £59999
2005 £65000
2005 £75133
2005 £79950
2006 £58019
2006 £59500
2006 £62611
2006 £66367
2006 £69950
2006 £70124
2006 £82646
2007 £58395
2007 £65950
2007 £66950
2008 £62611
2008 £66785
2008 £68037
2008 £70959
2008 £70959
2008 £72350
2008 £74298
2008 £79307
2008 £82646
2008 £98508
2009 £74950
2009 £74995
2009 £82646

That calculates to


2004: GBP 47.584-83.439 = AVG 59.671
2005: GBP 52.995-79.950 = AVG 61.827
2006: GBP 58.019-82.646 = AVG 67.031
2007: GBP 58.395-66.950 = AVG 63.765
2008: GBP 62.611-98.508 = AVG 74.646
2009: GBP 74.950-82.646 = AVG 77.530

When considering TCO (total cost of ownerhip), the difference in fuel cost between engine options will be insignificant as compared to the variance in investment (depreciation).
Add to this a possible gain from price negotiations.

 

[AllanG]

If you use yachtworld.com to get an overview of trends, you'll see asking prices in these ranges:

Hi Spi,

I've looked on Yachtworld.com but can't see how to access this data...........can you advise?

Cheers, Allan

 

[Spi D]

You easily will see the price ranges. Click here
Getting the calculated results take a few steps:

Search on yachtworld.com then display as table, all in one screen. Copy 'n paste all to a text editor to get years and prices in two columns. Then copy to Excel and make a pivot, showing sums by min, max and avg.

Back to the text editor to make things look tidy in a plain text format as the forum software else will make it look weird.

Another observation:
Seemingly identical boats vary a lot in asking price. Maybe due to sellers not being keen or not realistic. Some have put boat up for sale without really wanting it to go (marital pressure, bankers demand etc.)
Not a few spot the highest price, often for a mint sample, and put their own up at same price regardless of condition.

Looking further into search engines and portals will show more ads. Some good, some bad. Also search youtube for make and model as many have posted clips or even video ads.

 

[petie]

Also in the market for a late model 925{ nanni or yanmar engine) but as you say, somewhat confused about the 'right' price as wide variation in asking prices for similar models. One or two been on offer for over a year with multi brokers which does make me wonder about condition. I suppose a cheeky offer is the only way to get to the right price.

 

[Spi D]

I don't entirely agree. You need to talk to the seller first, assess value (also of info given) and decide if communication is trustworthy.

Until you get detailed, recent photos, description, service history and possibly view the boat, you really are not in a position to know if the boat will meet your expectations, hence deserve a fair offer.
IMO, that is

 

[A_8]

Good info on the pricing, any thoughts on one with equipped flybridge vs not?

Also agree on the depreciation vs fuel cost however my friend is from the old school and set in his ways

Looking at a 2009 example in Germany with the Yanmar 6BY260 and they claim;

21 kn ca. 35 Liter/Stunde(hour) equals 1.66 ltr/nm
17 kn ca. 17 Liter/Stunde(hour) equals 1ltr/nm

This is a lot better than the numbers stated with the KAD300. Looking at the specs the KAD300 will draw 58ltr/hour at max and the Yanmar 55ltr/hour which is not that different so is the yanmar much more fuel efficient at lower revs or are the fuel data given for the Yanmar/MF925 wrong?

Fuel curve on the Yanmar attached, can anyone comment on how it compares to the KAD300 (can't find the same data on the net)

 

[Spi D]

To my experience a claimed consumption can be used for guidance - at best. In reality so many factors affect the fuel burn, that no theoretical model will tell anything near the truth.
There is no connection between boat and automotive consumption. Cars may now and then run at very low load, rolling happily down hill or in neutral. Fuel can be leaned a lot under certain conditions. Not so in a boat.. The engine will work a lot harder and never ever get near car consumption figures. On the other hand, all those lovely times you stay on the boat in the marina will take no fuel at all - which beats the car

First of all the load. Weight of vessel and current/wind will change the need of hp to push the boat. Next the state of the sea as waves will push the boat. Then consider how often sea and wind will prevent you from cruising at the ideal speed. Fuel is burned in relation to the work performed. Demand a lot of power and it will use a lot of fuel. Some 205 grams per kW per hour.

If your friend is old school he certainly will understand sheer logic - if you can explain it in a way he can relate to. Talking old school, how does he like the mentioned Yanmar engine, based on a fully electronic BMW 3-liter aluminium diesel? 260 hp is not a low performance per liter...

Apart from that the engine seems to be OK if maintained properly (as any). Apparently cooling can be an issue.

Flybridge: Well worth the modest extra cost, second hand. If there you can use it when you like. On resale the lack of Fly may be a showstopper to those who want it, the opposite is hardly the case.

 

[Nautibusiness]

The fly bridge was a +/-£5000 option at the time of build.
Always go for a fly ridge as it will dramatically effect values.

The figures you see for the yanmar will not come good in real life.
The reality is all the engines will use similarish fuel quantities at about 18 knots.

If I was buying my preference would be:
1) Nanni
2) Kamd 300
3) Yanmar (nothing in it with the Kamd and whilst the same HP as the D4 does appear to perform marginally better)
4) D4.260 - it is simply ragging itself senseless with a load at 18 knots and slow down much and the boat goes bow up, digs her bum in and doesn't handle so nicely.

The above is of course just opinion, but I've driven all of them, some more than others.

 

[ricky_s]

The fly bridge was a +/-£5000 option at the time of build.
Always go for a fly ridge as it will dramatically effect values.

The figures you see for the yanmar will not come good in real life.
The reality is all the engines will use similarish fuel quantities at about 18 knots.

If I was buying my preference would be:
1) Nanni
2) Kamd 300
3) Yanmar (nothing in it with the Kamd)
4) D4.260 - it is simply ragging itself senseless with a load at 18 knots and slow down much and the boat goes bow up, digs her bum in and doesn't handle so nicely.

The above is of course just opinion, but I've driven all of them, some more than others.

Intersting opinion regarding the d4 as I have this engine in my 925 and cruise at 3000 rpm happily all day. Not a fast boat but that really isn't the point with this sort of boat. I use approximately 33 litres per hour at these revs.

 

[A_8]

Intersting opinion regarding the d4 as I have this engine in my 925 and cruise at 3000 rpm happily all day. Not a fast boat but that really isn't the point with this sort of boat. I use approximately 33 litres per hour at these revs.

Maybe the fuel question is about sorted now but just to make sure, are you getting around 18 knots at 3000 rpm's?

Being a current owner, are there any particular areas we should look closely at before deciding on which one is more interesting or not?

 

[Nautibusiness]

Just a thought.
If it will help somewhere at the office I have a copy of the MBM review if this boat versus a small Rodman flybridge.
It was carried out aboard a customer of mines 925 with yours truly onboard.
This boat was light and had just myself and, from memory, Mark Turley on board.

Pm me your email address and I'll send the review in the morning if I can find it.

Tom

 

[Spi D]

I'd suggest you browse the market for similar designs. Several around from Jeanneau, Beneteau, Ocqueteau, Rodman, Star Fisher, Quicksilver (marketed under more brands worldwide under Brunswick group) and others.
http://brunswick.com/brands/marine-boats/index.php


Type often referred to as Sport Fisher

 

[A_8]

PM sent and thanks for your help!

 

[ricky_s]

Maybe the fuel question is about sorted now but just to make sure, are you getting around 18 knots at 3000 rpm's?

Being a current owner, are there any particular areas we should look closely at before deciding on which one is more interesting or not?

Around 18Knots sounds about right, though I don't tend to focus too much on the speed.

I wouldn't pay more than £60K unless it was a really late boat and I would only go for the D4 or the Nanni. Twin engine makes it expensive to run and I think is harder to sell on later and I certainly wouldn't entertain a non fly bridge model, even though you will probably rarely use it as it isn't the most inviting one in the world.

Make sure the bow thruster works as it is impossible to handle in astern without it and look out for boats that have been used for fishing, things like bait wells put off SWMBOs.

Some boats have updated seating in the cockpit, don't let this put you off because the standard seats aren't the most comfortable though this may lower the selling price in the long run.

My last comment is to negotiate hard, lots of the boats advertised have been on there a long time!