A-Flags

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did ask earlier, but no response - how far should we be aiming to keep clear by?

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200 yds is a good distance if possible. 100 yds absolute minimum and keeping a very good lookout for suddenly appearing marker buoys/heads etc
 
So - we need to be able to clearly distinguish a dive boat by 200yds - or ~180meters, 580 feet, 0.1 miles or 0.8 cables. (to young to work in yards you see! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif) in order to keep clear.
 
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What do they actually do to "to ensure its all-round visibility"?

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One boat that I dive from regularly in the south of France (St Mandrier, if anyone is interested) uses two aluminium A flags set at right angles to each other, mounted on an ali pole. When we anchor to dive it goes on the cabin top, when all divers are out it comes down.

Not sure that it measures the full 1 m and perhaps not practical on a RIB - but there must be other solutions.
 
Must admit I have never looked carefully but where would one buy a rigid 1m across Alpha? It would be pretty big so I guess would be obvious if swindleries did them but as I said, never really looked.

I have a vast one at home, fell off a warship or summat, its been a beadspread in its life. I suppose it ought to be on the boat in case I ever need to dive underneath, but it would make a passable cover for the tender:-)
 
As a sailor and diver I do sometimes find it difficult to recognise Dive flags. In France this year I also encountered a different Dive flag that is red & white.

I needed to buy one to dive directly off the boat and the chap in the chandlery insisted the red/white one was the proper flag to fly not the alpha flag. It even said "Diving" on the packaging.

A quick trawl of the internet suggests the red/white flag says that you have divers down, whereas the Alpha flag suggests the boat is connected with the diving and is therefore restricted in it's manoeuvrability.

What does everyone else make of this?
 
I always understood the two to be alternates - you fly one or the other. Red / white more common in North America (and Oz/NZ?), Alpha more common in Europe.
 
Coming in a bit late on this thread so my bit will probably disappear into the ether!!

I dive and go boating and at one time held a lofty position within BSAC and the problem of divers and flags etc has always been there.

Part of the problem nowadays is, in my opinion, divers just aren't getting enough experience before actually extending their diving... sounds a bit odd that but they are basically lazy as far as planning is concerned.

Out they go in a boat, jump off, swan around and then pop their delayed marker buoy up for the boat to come and get them....hence the boat skipper not really having a huge idea where his divers are.

If the boat skipper does have an idea then he should "defend" his divers by putting his boat between the divers and the threat...simple and he shepherds the oncoming boat away. It isn't rocket science and it works.

As for size of A flags... where do you draw the line at being picky? How many fishing boats do you see in harbour still showing the signs for fishing? Not excusing dive boat skippers but look at the real world, a rigid replica on a 6m RIB is impractical. The RIB is versatile and quick enough to do the defending bit mentioned above, so is size important as long as you see it.
Responsible dive boat skippers, whether RIB or large boat, will invariably keep the boat "live" and not anchor to enable them to do the defending bit.

Personally I've never had any major problems from both sides of the fence. I wonder if this is a real problem or a perceived one?
 
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I wonder if this is a real problem or a perceived one?


[/ QUOTE ] same waters as BrendanS and it's real.

I want to be made aware of a possible diver - the flags used just don't do it. In relatively busy waters the time I have to take to work out which of the craft ahead I can plan to pass within 50m if necessary and which I would like to give 200m starts to eat into tie better suited to observation for pot buoys, nets and muppets trolling for bass with 200m of line trailing astern..............

So I am all for giving the dive boats a very wide berth - it would help me do it if they flew more obvious A flags.
 
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I did ask earlier, but no response - how far should we be aiming to keep clear by?

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I guess it depends on the circumstances but I think the main problem is one alluded to earlier - there seems to be a style of sailing that means a boat will aim directly at a stationery vessel from a distance off, now I am sure they intend to stear clear at the last minute but most people aren't psychic and that gives the skipper a good 15-20 minutes sometimes of wondering why a vessel is bearing down on you for no particular reason. I was in a small RIB at StAldhelm's a few weeks ago and the only other boat for ten miles in any direction decided to do this, I breathed a sigh of relief as he passed 10metres off only for him to tack and come so close I could have leaned over and changed his anode if I'd had the right tools. What on earth was that all about? Why go so close to another vessel under any circumstances?

In answer to another post - the red/white flag is an American (maybe even miami/caribbean) thing which has become a trademark for some US companies.

Something that hasn't been mentioned; most dives are over something specific, if there's a wreck marked on the chart and a couple of boats up ahead with indeterminate flags flying, have an educated guess.
 
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