david_e
Well-Known Member
well then howard, what did you do?
pugwash
Well-Known Member
I spent today in the Dover Coastguard radar lookout and asked this very question. The chief of the unit advised that that within the official TSS marked on the chart, a vessel of less than 20 metres, even if sailing, has no right to make a larger ship alter course. In other words, stay clear.
halcyon
Well-Known Member
The ships heading should be at right angles to the TSS, so that if sailing you actually crab across the TSS
If you meet a vessel it then has rules to follow to avoid a collision, you then revert to your original course, thus avoiding the holes a small ship may fall through.
Brian
If you meet a vessel it then has rules to follow to avoid a collision, you then revert to your original course, thus avoiding the holes a small ship may fall through.
Brian
vyv_cox
Well-Known Member
If I understand what you are saying, it is in direct contradiction with what the Dover Coastguard told Pugwash in the post above. Effectively and so far as a small vessel is concerned, a ship is always the stand-on vessel in a TSS.
My own actions would be to do as the Coastguard suggests but this is not what the Colregs say, at least as I interpret them. If I turn off my right-angle course across the TSS to pass astern of a ship I am in contravention of that rule.
My own actions would be to do as the Coastguard suggests but this is not what the Colregs say, at least as I interpret them. If I turn off my right-angle course across the TSS to pass astern of a ship I am in contravention of that rule.
jimi
Well-Known Member
see note to Rule 10(c)
"Rule 10(c) applies to the general route to be taken by a vessel crossing a TSS, it imposes no restriction on action which might be taken to avoid a collision"
also Rule 8(f)
to precis
1)if required not to impede then take early action
2)if required not to impede and at close quarters try and anticipate any action by the not be impeded vessel
3)Not to be impeded vessel also has obligation to avoid collision
My interpretation is:
Get across traffic lanes as fast as possible keeping out the way of vessels using the TSS ... quite simple really.
It becomes a little less simple in the bit of the channel which is not a TSS and technically the TSS rules do not apply.
"Rule 10(c) applies to the general route to be taken by a vessel crossing a TSS, it imposes no restriction on action which might be taken to avoid a collision"
also Rule 8(f)
to precis
1)if required not to impede then take early action
2)if required not to impede and at close quarters try and anticipate any action by the not be impeded vessel
3)Not to be impeded vessel also has obligation to avoid collision
My interpretation is:
Get across traffic lanes as fast as possible keeping out the way of vessels using the TSS ... quite simple really.
It becomes a little less simple in the bit of the channel which is not a TSS and technically the TSS rules do not apply.
G
Guest
Guest
It was a question that came up in my YM exam, and the examiner (an extra Master) was clear that the yacht was the stand on vessel and should continue on course unless it became clear that the tramper was not giving way.
Seems to me, however, that most skippers will agree with the Dover coastguard guy quoted above. So my reaction has always been either to turn to starboard and parrallell the tramper or (if he is too close) to do a 180.
To my mind, the least attractive option is simply to slow down a bit. There have been a number of cases where the stand on vesel has made a minor change like that to allow the give way vessel to continue only for the give way vessel to simultaneously make a course correction and a near miss to occurr. For example, if the tramper decided to pass close behind you.
So best to make it obvious what you're doing. But the whole question shows how unclear the collregs are.
Seems to me, however, that most skippers will agree with the Dover coastguard guy quoted above. So my reaction has always been either to turn to starboard and parrallell the tramper or (if he is too close) to do a 180.
To my mind, the least attractive option is simply to slow down a bit. There have been a number of cases where the stand on vesel has made a minor change like that to allow the give way vessel to continue only for the give way vessel to simultaneously make a course correction and a near miss to occurr. For example, if the tramper decided to pass close behind you.
So best to make it obvious what you're doing. But the whole question shows how unclear the collregs are.
halcyon
Well-Known Member
Think the regs are clear, it's peoples memory that is the problem.
Your examiners interpretation may go part way to explaining why commercial vessels keep hitting each other.
Brian
Your examiners interpretation may go part way to explaining why commercial vessels keep hitting each other.
Brian
eddieperkins
Well-Known Member
About the same time the last 'tramp steamer' went to its watery grave!!
BrendanS
Well-Known Member
My understanding of the course is similar. If in doubt, turn clearly, and run parallel until the other vessel has passed (in just about every circumstance you'll turn to starboard whether you are stand on vessel or not, reduce speed if necessary, ) then turn and resume course.
Rather than remember lots of detail, and potentially get it wrong, this sort of simple rule of thumb is surely the answer?
If I'm incorrect, I'm willing to learn, and do understand that there are odd occassions when you'll turn to port, but esoteric rather than typical?
Rather than remember lots of detail, and potentially get it wrong, this sort of simple rule of thumb is surely the answer?
If I'm incorrect, I'm willing to learn, and do understand that there are odd occassions when you'll turn to port, but esoteric rather than typical?
BrendanS
Well-Known Member
Byron,
I'm a beginner at this. Why should a tramp steamer be restricted in either draft or manouvreability in a TSS in the English Channel. The TSS may not be that wide, but they're not exactly narrow nor require dredging, not for that type of vessel?
Not an arguement, just a desire to learn, which is what drew me to these forums.
I'm a beginner at this. Why should a tramp steamer be restricted in either draft or manouvreability in a TSS in the English Channel. The TSS may not be that wide, but they're not exactly narrow nor require dredging, not for that type of vessel?
Not an arguement, just a desire to learn, which is what drew me to these forums.