A Classic?

[Simes]

What classifies a yacht as a classic? Age, designer, design, construction, apperance, rig. Or is it a state of mind? Is a copy of a classic yacht still a classic?
If a copy of a classic is not a classic then why fit all of those hard to find bits that are also expensive? why not fit the much easier to find (and probably pay for) modern bits?
How about a newish yacht fitted out in the "spirit" of the era? is thyis a classic?

I look forward to your replys,

Simes

 

[tcm]

Re: A Classic : definition

A Classic

1.... has a "timeless" design. Not old necesarily - but most definitely not slavishly new either.

2 ...has some Obvious Wood. The whole thing need not be wood, but no wood means not a classic. The wood needs to be varnished or plentiful, or both.

3 ...has "seen action". This might mean a circumnavigation, or (more usually) has simply done equivalent or more miles with the same sails. It's a bit dubious as a true classic if the whole thing is as shiny as a new pin - it shouts that it's been remanufactured, or repro, hence not original, hence a sham, as the other crews on less-shiny classic will mutter into their tea - although everyone on the dockside will say the spanking new wooden italian ketch is most definitely a classic.

4 ...sacrifices some function for form. So, for example there might be hardly anywhere to sit on nice clean empty deck, or only two berths on a 40 footer.

5 ...also sacrfices some form for function. So, the anchor might be fine for a ship ten times as big, for example, and/or the general construction easily yet rather unneccessarily able to withstand being launched from fifty feet in the air on to solid concrete.

6 ...has "provenance". This might be the sort of provenance of a well-known builder, a famous round the world cruiser, or weirdish self-contained local provenance whereby lots of people say "ah yes, Donald's old boat" even when you've owned it for the last ten years.

7 ...has some colour. It can't really be white, or if it is, the white had better be old english white. This ought to be changed to green or blue or brown, anything to get rid of the ghastly white which belongs to plastic boats.

8 ...dedicates a fair bit of expense to the ensign and the name. The pole should be wooden, of course, and the name at the bows on boths sides as well as the stern. Extra marks for the name carved. No extra mnarks for gold lettering, of course - that's vulgar.

9 ...is dog slow compared to the potential speed of a modern boat of similar dimensions. Partly due to the weight, the woooden mast, the lack of keel, the ton of paint, the teak deck, the teak interior, and the old sails.

10 ...is for sale! Of course, not always advertised as such, but for the right price and to a very very loving new owner, well then something might be arranged. if advertised, the ad always says "with great regret" or "with very great regret" - the regret usually involving not having sold the thing five years earlier or at least before having spent three times as much in repairs and maintenance than the boat is now worth.

 

[Kristal]

\"Gentleman\'s Yacht\"

[ QUOTE ]
3 ...has "seen action". This might mean a circumnavigation, or (more usually) has simply done equivalent or more miles with the same sails.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here I have to cordially disagree, as many classics (mine most definitely included) seem to have been whimsical purchases by wealthy (and often unmarried) gentlemen as a desirable bathtoy, in which to buoy-hop with a few bottles of Single Malt...

...which, actually, put like that, is pretty much what I use mine for!

/<

 

[Mirelle]

Now there is a term that I detest!

A Gentleman's Motor Yacht is a term that, like "Gentleman's Club" (which means "night club") a gentleman would not use. A "Gentleman's Motor Yacht" is a term used by brokers to designate what, when new, was a Spiv's Casting Couch.

 

[Mirelle]

Ouch!

1. Timeless. Design was out of date in 1930's. They had invented rigging screws and pointy rig by then.

2. Not as much as there was before I painted the laid teak deck, but still about an acre of it.

3. Has Seen Inaction. Never been West of Brixham or North of Hamburg in 67 years. Spent a wholly un-heroic war, not going to Dunkirk, but sitting in a mud berth. We can boast a fine patina of mud, verdigris, slightly-rusty galvanising and grey teak that ought to be varnished, however.

4. Eg a cockpit that combines massive drains, a tiny footwell and seats at deck level, with a coaming that gets the small of your back every time - rendered uninhabitable by a massive, carved, tiller.

5. You've seen our riding light! Davey's cone burner, as it should be, but began life as a coaster's Not Under Command light!

6. All of the above, plus some senior citizens remember building her (rather more remember repairing her!)

7. Check. Done black, grey, blue and now alas Old English White...

8. Missed a trick here. But there should never be a home port under the name - just XYZYC. Highest marks awarded to the smack yacht "Bird of Dawning" which actually has "RNVRYC" carved into her counter!

9. What's the rush?

10. Variant on this: if you own the same old boat for donkey's years, but occasionally get bored with the paint scheme (see 7, above) various quayside old codgers will delight in sidling up to you and telling you what a prat "the previous owner" was when you had her painted black, grey, blue, etc.

 

[tcm]

Re: Now there is a term that I detest!

agreed. As far as either a sailing or motor vessel, the GMY is invariably dog slow, and dare i say, not handsome enought to qualify as "classic".

 

[Kristal]

Re: Now there is a term that I detest!

Well, like it or not, chaps, the original Bill Of Sale states both vendor and purchaser's occupations as "Gentleman". And being possessed of two (count 'em) masts, she qualifies as a "yacht".

To pretend she was built for anything other than to go like stink, attract the admiration of your peers, and provide an escape from 'er indoors would be dishonest!

/<

 

[Mirelle]

Crikey!

Not one, but two, gentlemen, in sucession!

One's own old boat was built as a wedding present for a director of a company that made stockings*, and then owned for most of her life by a dentist.

Can you afford to keep her in the style to which she is accustomed?

* Comment from one who remembers building her..."We thought he was quite well off, but when his Bentley wouldn't start, and he was collected by his chauffeur in a Rolls-Royce, we were sure!"

 

[Kristal]

Re: Crikey!

Why, of course. Whilst being a working man, I can still stretch to enough gin to float the Queen Mother (RIP), recruit the odd floozy, talk in patronising terms about how spiffing it is to see working boats still about... and it goes without saying I can be guaranteed to make an absolute coq-up when under the eye of a significantly more experienced sailor.

However, there is a copy of Debrett aboard, and I'd very much appreciate it if you wouldn't mention to Her Majesty about the Swan Pie we enjoyed last week...

 

[Porthandbuoy]

1) To qualify as a classic she will not be made of "wood", but mahogany, larch, oak, teak, etc. all species specific eg. Honduras mahogany, Scottish larch, American White oak, Burmese teak.

2) Provenance will consist of faded receipts in Pounds Shillings and Pence, with extra points for halfpennies and farthings.

3) You must be able to find coins in the bilges stamped with the heads of a least 3 monarchs. Extra points for gold sovereigns or two queens.

4) The engine should be fabricated from cast iron rather than pot-metal or pressings. Extra points if it runs on TVO or paraffin. Double bonus if it doesn't run at all!

5) The designer should be long dead. While this often applies to the designers of plastic boats this does NOT make them a classic.

6) Photographs of the boat should be black and white. Extra points if sepia.

7) Her class must have featured somewhere, sometime, in a book or magazine. Extra points if your boat is the one mentioned.

 

[Mirelle]

2 1/2 ton Hillyard - Eric Hiscock\'s \"Cruising Under Sail\", 1st edn...

Pretty good definition.

My 2 1/2 tonner had (and doubtless still has) bronze coins of the Raj used as clench washers holding her grown floors in place (she was built in Ceylon, as it then was, immediately after WW2) so she qualified for "coins in the bilges". She had a Broad Arrow on the underside of the brass strip used for the hatch runners, lending credence to the tale that she was built of "offcuts left over from building Naval M/L's at Trincomalee" !

"Mirelle" being built in Suffolk is less exotic but when built she was described as having "waxes Austrian oak panelling". When I dismantled it I found the company chop of Mitsui & Co, which I have spent long enough in the East to recognise, on the back of the "Auatrian" oak panels!

 

[burgundyben]

Re: A Classic : definition

6. Provenance - My trusty steed was built in 67 and raced Cowes Torquay, winning production cruiser and Royal Yacht Squadon Cup and £100. Was entered as works boat and driven by MD of Fairey Marine at the time with Peter Twiss (1000mph in fairey delta 2 fame) along as navigator, was not registered but raced as 333 Fairey Huntsman, was sold in 1970 to first private owner who was retired army officer, he'd been in India and named the boat 'Teen Teen Teen', 333 in Indian apparently.

In 1972 name changed to Playtime II and still is, was known for a while as Gaytime II due to preferences of the then owner.....

Still has original engines and boxes as fitted and still running props provided for racing Faireys. Still clears 32 knots. Still has chipboard heads door. Still has 3/8 ply deck and no samson post or water tank all given away for lightness. Still has fablon covering.

Does she count as classic?

 

[Mirelle]

Quite a provenance, there!

A classic beyond doubt, in nice original condition. Few if any racing cars would be as intact and none would have had as much use or given as much pleasure!

It is the fablon covering and chipboard heads door that help to mark her out as the real thing! (Peter Twiss less absolute than Edward Heath, who threw the bog door off the first "Morning Cloud")

(Enfield 303 rifle - "teen so teen")

 

[ianwright]

Well anyway (sniff)!

Patience will be a Classic when she is old enough, so there!
Classic designer, yes.
Classic design , yes
Classic Gaff rig, yes.
Traditional Iroko on oak, wooden spars, a real (leak free) teak deck. yes.
Built for a Gentleman,,,,,, ah,,,,,,,, there you have me. Perhaps her next owner (see my executors) will be more worthy of her.
IanW /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif