A Boaty Glasses Guide

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oldgit

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Boatshop24 have knocked up a basic guide to prices achieved for popular boats.
Might be worth a look ?
Sealine appear to rival Fairline in the secondhand sales league.
There is a Crown 37 listed at a very low price.Think a forumite bought it.
 
There is not enough spread of data to really give you an accurate idea of a 'market price'.

In reality each transaction defines the market only to be superseded by the next. Biats don't have a standard specification and you just have to see new biat brochure to understand the cost of two boats the same model can differ by 100%.

Plus I've just had a look and these are asking prices, not sold prices. Basically useless. If you are after a bpat it's easy and basic to research the market. I can tell you the spread of asking prices for the two models I'm looking at, from the sublime to the ridiculous and I doubt any if them will actually be the sale price.
 
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Whitelighter said:
There is not enough spread of data to really give you an accurate idea of a 'market price'.

In reality each transaction defines the market only to be superseded by the next. Biats don't have a standard specification and you just have to see new biat brochure to understand the cost of two boats the same model can differ by 100%.

Plus I've just had a look and these are asking prices, not sold prices. Basically useless. If you are after a bpat it's easy and basic to research the market. I can tell you the spread of asking prices for the two models I'm looking at, from the sublime to the ridiculous and I doubt any if them will actually be the sale price.
Click to expand...

But a least somebody has had a go.....Anything that brings a bit of perspective to advertised asking prices.
Personally have given up for a bit on viewing tired damp old old **** which has been on the market for ages being punted around as fresh to the market bargains merely being in need of a gentle polish.....
Unfortunately the disappointment wears off only to soon and off we go round the boatyards and marinas again.:)
 
oldgit said:
But a least somebody has had a go.....Anything that brings a bit of perspective to advertised asking prices.
Personally have given up for a bit on viewing tired damp old old **** which has been on the market for ages being punted around as fresh to the market bargains merely being in need of a gentle polish.....
Unfortunately the disappointment wears off only to soon and off we go round the boatyards and marinas again.:)
Click to expand...

But surely a 'guide' that lists only asking prices will only encourage this? Now every owner of tired damp old **** can look at the list, see a spread of £50,000 - £80,000 and think 'that's what it's worth so I'll have £80,000 please'.
 
A huge problem is owners looking at the internet and deciding the most expensive listed boat is what their own is worth. Often these will be overseas where the 'haggle' factor is always added on top and creates a false impression.
It is only the actual SOLD prices that truly reflect what is happening in the market.
There has long been a database of what prices are stated as having been achieved available to brokers but again, if someone has not been accurate then it is useless.
The only real guide is what someone will offer you compared to others on the market.
As with houses and cars, advertised prices are just that unless it clearly states FIXED PRICE or offers over xxxxx.
Talk to a broker and tell them what you want and how much you have to spend as a maximum including transport if applicable and funds left for doing it up if needed. A good broker like us (!!!) will always be helpful and will try to put you in the right boat/negotiation situation.
 
oldgit said:
But a least somebody has had a go.....Anything that brings a bit of perspective to advertised asking prices.
Personally have given up for a bit on viewing tired damp old old **** which has been on the market for ages being punted around as fresh to the market bargains merely being in need of a gentle polish.....
Unfortunately the disappointment wears off only to soon and off we go round the boatyards and marinas again.:)
Click to expand...

Had a go yes, but done such a half arsed job they are likely to compound the issue that is causing you to celebrate its apparent invention.

Buying a boat is a specialist task, it's not like buying a Volkswagen Golf. If you need some sort of guide to tell you what you should pay you probably shouldn't be spending that sort of money. There will always be people who ask to much and there will always be people who offer to little - the 'market price' is where often both compromise
 
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Imperial One said:
A huge problem is owners looking at the internet and deciding the most expensive listed boat is what their own is worth. Often these will be overseas where the 'haggle' factor is always added on top and creates a false impression.
It is only the actual SOLD prices that truly reflect what is happening in the market.
There has long been a database of what prices are stated as having been achieved available to brokers but again, if someone has not been accurate then it is useless.
The only real guide is what someone will offer you compared to others on the market.
As with houses and cars, advertised prices are just that unless it clearly states FIXED PRICE or offers over xxxxx.
Talk to a broker and tell them what you want and how much you have to spend as a maximum including transport if applicable and funds left for doing it up if needed. A good broker like us (!!!) will always be helpful and will try to put you in the right boat/negotiation situation.
Click to expand...

I agree with you first point wholeheartedly. Boat A is up for £100k but mines is better so I'll ask £110k. The next guy sees mine at £110k thinks his boat is better still so asks £120k but the reality is all these prices were based on £100k which might have been wrong.

Where we will have to disagree is your ability as a broker to control prices. You don't own the boats and the owner has total control over you in terms of asking price. You are working for the seller, not the buyer. My experience of brokers is standing there listening to them assure me that the vastly inflated prices of their "stock" is entirely realistic. In the end I've gone away and bought dealer owned stock boats for less money. I don't bother wasting my time with brokers.

Ultimately it isn't your fault as a broker. It's the fault of unrealistic owners but as I've said many times before there is absolutely no way for owners or indeed buyers to determine actual values. That uncertainty destroys any chance of confidence. An open list of true achieved prices would be a real shot in the arm. Yes, people need to understand there are significant differences between various craft which will impact significantly on value but at least there is a starting point.

From that starting point market forces will ensure boats obtain fair prices because if true values were asked there would be competition to purchase. Once they had missed a couple of opportunities buyers would soon change their view that they are the only buyer in the world. Boats would also not have to sit around for months or even years on end destroying confidence.

Henry :)
 
To add I've just been on the BS24 site and their "guide" is a joke. I would be embarrassed to put my name to it! Checking the little know manufacturers Fairline and Princess the newest boats listed were 2003 with many models 30 years old now. All the prices I checked were made up of just 2 samples. And as is stated the numbers are advertised prices (which we all agree are usually pure fiction) not achieved prices.

H.
 
Henry, all very valid and in line with my own thoughts.
One small thing, I have never sought to control prices nor could I. Owners do have total control over asking prices BUT we do advise, often quite bluntly and even declining instructions, when they are too high. The only time I am ever stuck is when an owner insists on a fixed price as happened recently. This boat did not sell and will not sell anytime soon. We no longer offer it either as there is no point trying to sell something unrealistically over priced/valued.
Enjoyed your articles in MBY BTW.
Mike.:)
 
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