80's ETAP 30

Georgio

Georgio

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georgeisted.blogspot.com
Hi,
I'm helping a friend look at sailing cruisers suitable for family use, he is finally coming over from the dark side.

We have been to see an well kept ETAP 30 of early/mid 80's vintage. While I know they are unsinkable my knowledge runs out there.

I would appreciate any views on this boat, good, bad or known problems to watch for.

Many thanks
 
If it looks good and has the appearance of being well cared for then it should be good. You cannot 'tart up' a badly cared for boat easily.

With that in mind the Etap 30 was/is a fairly heavy boat, quite seaworthy with a good aspect ratio, deep safe cockpit and fittings over engineered for the purpose, as with all Etaps.

I dont promise, but I may have some original data or review articles about the boat at home (sad arnt I?), I'll see and if I do I'll PM you.
 
One thing to be wary of; boats with built-in bouyancy foam can sometimes suffer from trapped water ( say from a leaking deck fitting, window etc ) and this can either turn to mush, or trap water against important structure.

I'm sure this boat should be fine, just something to keep in mind.

When inspecting any boat the good old hand mirror & torch are invaluable !
 
This article contains the original specifications...

www.etapowners.org.uk/downloads_files/ETAP 30 manual.pdf

All through hull fittings and any hull repairs are worth checking with extra vigilance though. Although closed cell is termed 'closed cell', Etap themselves do say that current foam can take in up to 5% of its volume.

Article related to this in a magazine.
http://features.boats.com/boat-content/2003/07/unsinkable-etap/

It sounds like a small amount though.. and for peace of mind you'll still have a boat that is still sailable and will get you home even with a sea-cock missing or a hole in the hull.
 
Foam bouyancy worries

As an example, ( I run the Anderson 22 & 26 Owners Association ) - the '26 has foam bouyancy, a rare though good boat, only about 8 were made before Andersons lost their MOD contract and that was that.

Anyway I went with a novice to look at an A26 which he'd spotted for sale; the boat had basically been left abandoned ashore at a farm for 10 years, the owner being deceased a while ago and the boat in the grounds looked after by a relative.

The boat had a gash in the topsides, say 8 X 4", caused in road transport.

In all this time, no attempt had been made just to even tape a bit of plastic or something over this hole straight into the bouyancy foam ( the boat was most definitely outside, but moderately sheltered from some angles).

I was distinctly worried about this knobbling the surrounding foam, and we checked the area very thoroughly indeed.

I know someone who had a small French racing boat -I forget the design for the moment -and swore 'never again' after the closed cell foam disintegrated into aforementioned mush.

It turned out the A26 was as dry as a bone, and my chum now has a very good boat for a bargain price.

He still has a major refit to do ( some of the interior had been damaged then bodged and the engine was fit only for a mooring sinker ), no bad thing as he's handy engineering & DIY wise & it will teach him a lot about cruisers - owners of operational A26's are kindly letting him see their boats as a guide.

I hope your chum finds the Etap a good'un.
 
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I have been involved with Etaps for the last 18 years, our first boat was an Etap 22 of 1972 vintage, one of the earliest Etaps. Since our first Etap we have owned an Etap 28i (now owned by another forumite) and currently own a 35i. When it was active, I was very much involved in the Etap owners Assc for many years.

No Etap, to my knowledge has ever had its foam 'turn to mush', sorry but it just does not happen. I dont argue that some other boats using poorer quality foam will suffer with 'mush', and I know I have seen poor quality 'builders' foam degrade quickly.
 
I know what you mean, but I'd suggest you might be surprised if you saw say an Etap which had been really mistreated, with bad deck leaks or worse over a period of time.

I'll try to recall the chap I spoke to who'd had it happen, but it was a 'proper' boat, certainly not builders' foam !

It does happen, ask an experienced surveyor ( who knows the subject ) - but as I tried to illustrate with my example of the A26 which survived well despite a small hole in the side for years, it either takes bad luck or very severe leaks.

Serious racing dinghies ( which I am rather used to as well ) do not use foam inside the bouyancy tanks nowadays due to water retention, despite it being tried years ago...

A diffferent, rather more severe test I grant, but you get the idea.
 
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I think that anyone who is thinking of buying an Etap, should do so safe in the knowledge that Etap have been using foam successfully since the early 70's and know more about foam than any other boat builder and of the 1000's sold world wide the foam has never presented a problem.

Have a nice weekend;)
 
Oh, come on Galadriel, " know more about foam than any other boat builder " ?!!!

I suppose they know more about alloy than NASA ( space not instruments ) as they use alloy rails ! - actually one of the things I don't like about them, the lifting keel on the Etap 26 not lifting all the way up so leaving the boat on her ear even in soft mud is another if one's claiming excellence...

You stoutly defend your class, fine so do I and we are both right in that; but one cannot make a blanket sweeping statement covering boats one hasn't seen.

I've already said it will probably be alright, but have mentioned a sensible seaman and engineering like precaution.

End of this communication, the OP can decide.
 
Thanks gents for all your views.

While I have heard of boats with foam buoyancy that absorbed water I have never heard it in relation to Etap. That's not to say that water couldn't get trapped in voids between inner and outer hull skin.

I would also be interested in the vews of anyone that sailed an Etap 30 in a good breeze.
 
"Oh, come on Galadriel, " know more about foam than any other boat builder " ?!!!"

They certainly know more than Anderson!!!:D
 
Georgio said:
Thanks gents for all your views.

While I have heard of boats with foam buoyancy that absorbed water I have never heard it in relation to Etap. That's not to say that water couldn't get trapped in voids between inner and outer hull skin.

I would also be interested in the vews of anyone that sailed an Etap 30 in a good breeze.
Click to expand...

I only found the same review that has been posted on here re: Etap 30. I'll see if I have any of the owner accounts of sailing the Etap 30, I used to publish and print the EOA magazine. There is an owner on the forum, based in Scotland, I guess he has not seen this, otherwise you would have had input from someone else who owns an Etaps. They are by all accounts very weatherly.

Anyway, I'm off sailing now!
 
Anderson Rigden & Perkins, est. 1917;

Built traditional wooden boats then the Anderson 22 which still achieves better reviews than any equivalent Etap.

Built top quality launches for the Royal Navy.

Developed the Anderson 26 with foam bouyancy, other business contracts lost so few built, but as stated seem to age well.

Etaps; alloy stanchion, toe & handrails ( until recently ) inc' cobbled together cleats; please explain why everyone else uses stainless steel grade 316...

'lift' keels which don't go fully up as they don't fit inside the deckhead !

Mass produced tupperware. Care to compare ballast & keel depth ratios ?!

I'm sure the OP will be happy with his boat until he gains experience.
 
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If you know little about Andersons, why say they 'know / knew little ' ?

I know a bit about 1980's Etap's, my Father was thinking of buying a '26 and we both looked over them but were rather put off by the alloy fittings - he's a lifelong engineer and I am a bit of one - and the fact that when one briefly tried even our soft mud half-tide moorings it dried out on its' ear all the time; there seems little benefit in having a lift keel if one can't dry out on soft mud ( I'd say a hard sand etc seabed is too cruel on any boat ).

The myth about 'shallow draught for creek crawling' is exactly that, a myth; doesn't make too much difference if one goes aground 3' closer from the shore !

I have said nice things about this chap's potential boat, and made some sensible comments; now let's knock this on the head.

If you wish to PM me your e-mail, I'd be happy to mail you some reviews of the A22 for interest, and for that matter I'll mention the good and bad points about the '22 and '26, not found the perfect boat yet, but put it this way, I once sold my A22 for a larger boat ( Carter 30 ) regretted it and managed after a few years to buy my old boat back...
 
I have been sailing a 1989 Etap 30 for the past 13 years. Generally speaking I have been extremely happy with it. Apart from the unsinkable aspect (which has to be considered an advantage, else why would anyone buy a liferaft?), the foam does significantly improve the hull's thermal insulation. In my experience water getting into the foam from any leaking fittings does not in fact stay trapped, but gradually leaks out at the lowest point, i.e. at the mast compression post or under a saloon bunk. Tracing leaks is not easy, but not impossible either.

In the last couple of years, after suffering some extremely bad weather, I have started having problems with hull deformation under rigging loads. Check for this by lifting the sole boards and look at the bottom of the main bulkhead both from the saloon and the heads side to see whether it has moved upwards wrt the hull moulding. (With the rigging load removed, i.e. mast down, everything returns to normal.)

Early models had a quite weak "back stop" to the tiller. Check if it is in place or has sheared off. The later beefed up replacement type is square rather than round section stainless. It's not a huge job to replace.

Check the stanchions. They're aluminium and easily bent.
 
Seajet said:
Etaps; alloy stanchion, toe & handrails ( until recently ) inc' cobbled together cleats; please explain why everyone else uses stainless steel grade 316...
Click to expand...

Not really wishing to muscle in on a private argument, but I have sailed Etaps (22 then 30) for over 20 years so do have some familiarity with them.

I accept (and have mentioned on another post) that the aluminium stanchions are a weakness. That said, bent stainless stanchions are not exactly unknown either, it's just that the margin for abuse is a bit lower with aluminium.

The tubular aluminium toerail, however, is a great piece of design. Having the ability to easily tie a rope anywhere along the length of the boat is extremely convenient. Attaching fenders is easier and more secure than with any other make of boat I have seen - far better than e.g. trying to tie to a thin guardwire.

I don't quite understand your suggestion that "everyone else" uses stainless cleats. I have seen on various boats wooden, aluminium, stainless and plastic cleats: the point surely is that whatever they are made of they should be adequately sized and strong enough to do their job. I have never had any problems with Etap's tubular aluminium cleats in this regard.
 
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