8%, there must be a better way?

[MonkeyBusiness]

This is a question for those of you who have successfully sold a boat without paying a broker 8% + vat for the privilege.

Firstly, what is the best and most effective way of advertising to attract a buyer?

Secondly, once a buyer is found, what is the best way to complete the transaction so that it is all legal and above board.

Any advice from those of you who have succeeded would be gratefully received.

Thanks

 

[jamesjermain]

About the only effective way of selling privately is through the yachting press classifieds. For cruising boats this means PBO for the smaller, cheaper end, YM for the middle ground and YW for the upper and racing end.
The RYA produces a form for a Bill of Sale which is a sensible document to use for the transaction. The association also publishes a book, Buying Your First Sailing Cruiser by Malcolm McKeag, which contains a lot of good advice. It can be ordered through the RYA website, www.rya.org.uk

JJ

 

[davidwf]

I too think 8% is too high, lowest I've found is 6% on a sole agent basis. Even that in my opinion is too high. I'm just getting ready to sell my boat and have created a website with all its details and plan to put an ad in YM with a picture for a couple of months.

I have heard that Seakers are very good, if I fail to sell privately I think I'll give them a go.

 

[Guest]

For my boat the class association has a section on their website for boats for sale. That's how I found and bought my boat. No commission payable, and the ad was either free or for a nominal payment.

As for the legal side, as mentioned below, the RYA booklet is very useful and includes a standard form of bill of sale. Particular points to look out for are 1. proof of ownership of the seller; 2. how much and how returnable your deposit is if you pull out for (a) good reason (eg. survey) and (b) no good reason; 3. Does the buyer hand over the cash first or does the seller hand over the boat first, or can you find a compromise.

Also the buyer should think about whether he/she wants Part 1 registration or not, and whether he/she'll get enough documentation to do so.

There's are lots of other points summarised in the booklet, but those are perhaps the highlights.

 

[Rowana]

What are you selling?
I'm looking to buy.
May not be what I want, but please e-mail info to
james_irvine@msn.com

Jim

 

[milltech]

I think you will be very lucky if you find a buyer quickly. I recently sold boat number 7 and they probably averaged six months on the market. During that time the broker advertises your boat, shows people over it, follows up interest, and negotiates. Many people find it easier to negotiate through a broker, certainly I do.

If the deal becomes particularly tight it is sometimes possible to say to the broker, "I'll accept his money if you take a cut too" and this can work if the broker would like to see a sale through his books that month to pay the mortgage.

Finally it may be a cop out but I find it comforting to use an experienced pair of hands for the actual transfer. I have no connection with... as they say but would put absolute trust in Williams and Smithells in Southampton or David East Yachting at Woodbridge. Both are Gentlemen in the OWD&C mode and both know their business.

I can see that class associations are a useful option, and for retired people with time perhaps DIY is the best, but for most of us I think the Broker is the right way and they earn their money. I recently went to look at a boat and the broker drove an hour each way to meet me.



John

 

[jonjo]

Re: 8% or 4% Trivial issue

I think you are in for a big shock, the second hand yacht market is in a dire state at present. It frequently takes downward price revisions of 10, 20 or sometimes 30% to make a sale particularly in the +25K range. Some of the boats I have looked at over the past 6 months have obviously not been sailed for 2 years and active marking can be traced back 1 year.

To answer your main question. If the boat is a popular design I would suggest classified magazine advertising linked to a d.i.y. web site with the equivalent of 8 A4 pages of detail and photos.

If you have to sell within 6 months, get the boat out of the water at Hamble Point and onto one of those walk-around brokerage displays.

Finally spend a whole weekend cleaning the boat and visit once a month to wash off the topsides grime. I am amazed at the disgusting domestic state of the majority of yachts for sale.

 

[numenius]

Re: 8% or 4% Trivial issue

Thats true. When I was looking to buy, I simply could not believe how scruffy some of the boats (a large number of actauly) I looked at were, - in particular at brokers yards. It was pretty obvious which had been there a long time. In fact, I used that very judgement to figure that I would be able to knock the guy down quite a lot on the one I finally bought - and it was right. As quite a few of the boats owners lived a LONG way off, then you'd have thought that as part of getting his 6 or 8% the broker might have at least kept things tidy after people had viewed the boats. This certainly was not the case at the yard I finaly bought at - doors & windows left open, canopies not fastened back down and so on. This would seem a minimum service for that 8% to me. This may not have been a typical broker, I don't know, , but was certainly one of the very biggest in the country

http://members.lycos.co.uk/boaty1965/index.htm

 

[Guest]

I see no reason why you need a broker.Prepare the boat for selling.Make up your own attractive A4 advertisement with a good photo and info and asking price.Initially target the area where the boat is based by sending the adverts with a complimentary letter to local clubs asking to display on the notice boards.You are more likely to sell in the same geographical area as it is less hassle for the buyer to sail it to where they want it than have it transported.Have prepared a fuller document to send to prospective buyers, and be prepared to have the price knocked down as a result of a survey which will undoubtedly find something that needs doing to what you thought was a well maintained craft.
I have recently bought my present boat by this method by seeing an advert for the boat appear on our club noticeboard (I promptly nicked it before anyone else spotted it.) The vendor very promptly sent me fuller details of the boat and added on the bottom that the boat was "only a 30 minute drive away from me".
It was indeed a very valid point. I bought the boat after negotiating a fair deal,and in the interim advertised my own boat in the same way and sold within a month, and could probably have sold it twice.
If you rely on a broker then they will probably stick it in an advert in one of this forums mags and that may take a couple of months to appear,and then you will have lots of timewasters following up adverts for boats that are probably located 200 miles away.

 

[oldharry]

Forget Brokers .......

I have yet to sell a boat through a Broker in less than a year! My last change of boat (September last year) was swift painless and cheap, and raised the full asking price (perhaps I should have asked more?!).

The magic? The Internet. I posted on 4 dedicated boat sales sites, was receiving enquiries within a week, and sold within 3 weeks, at a cost of just £30.

Now that can't be bad can it!

Compare that with one broker some years ago who insisted my boat should be put ashore at his Marina yard so he could sell it. Nothing heard for 3 months, except the marina bill. Went to enquire, no sign of my boat, and no advertisements visible anywhere in the Brokerage Office. I asked the girl if she had any boats of this class for sale.... She knew nothing about mine.

Wandering round the marina I eventually found my boat tucked away on a derelict ground at the back, the cover missing, half full of rainwater, and no indication that it was for sale.

Several Solicitors letters later I obtained refunds on all the fees and storage charges, removed the boat and after cleaning and sorting it sold it privately within a few weeks.

 

[Peter_the_Grate]

We have just sold our boat. We did a number of things to help the sale:-
1. Advertised in PBO (May and June), including the best photo we could find. Cost £96.
2. Advertised in our club newsletter. No photo. No cost. (Warsash Sailing Club - great club)
3. Created a brochure (description, inventory and photos) to send to interested parties, either by post or email. A couple of hours work.
4. Set up a web site with all brochure details and some additional photographs. Several days work, but interesting - advertising on the web is not as easy as "they" would have you believe.
5. Decided on a rock bottom selling price that we could use as the basis for a replacement and what budget we would allocate for the replacement. This helped to concentrate our minds on both what we needed and a might interest a buyer. We set the asking price to attract interest, it was realistic and not greedy.
6. Decided on what extras we were prepared to negotiate - tender, handheld VHF etc.
7. Started looking for the replacement so that we could reduce the "boatless" gap and to see what other boats looked like in terms of preparation - state of rigging, warps, interior etc: all of the things that people would look at on our boat.
8. Prepared the boat well. Thouroughly cleaned, cleared out the clutter, teak-oiled all the woodwork.

We sold in 4 weeks (from the appearance of the first ad.). We included the tender and negotiated a 4% drop from our asking price.

We didn't use a broker.

P.

 

[milltech]

Re: 8% or 4% Trivial issue

Although some boats are up on the hard apparently abandoned I think most boats for sale are also still in use, still being maintained, and still being serviced. To expect a broker to look after an owners boat is not realistic, otherwise we'd all put our boats on the market!

I do however think most brokers could make a more devoted effort in making sure your boat is well presented on the day. I mean by that to go aboard early and make sure the batteries are OK, lights work, maybe even put the coffee pot on, let a bit of fresh air through, if winter put some heating on, and be up to speed on the features of the boat. This is commonly not the case.

I think Kings at Shamrock deserve a merit award for putting complete details on the web instead of just one pic and an intro blurb. I cannot understand why they don't all do it.

John

 

[bedouin]

Go on Peter - tell us which channels generated the best response then!

 

[Peter_the_Grate]

... the Warsash Sailing Club Newsletter.

 

[webcraft]

First stop, your class association or owners organisation if there is one.

Then - an ad on your local yacht club/marina notice board. (I would also suggest a 'for sale' sign with contact details etc left prominently on the boat when you are not there).

If you put up a good DIY website - or get someone who can to do it for you free or cheaply - you can then use a much smaller and cheaper print advertisement - eg in PBO and/or YM. All this really needs to include is the type of boat, possibly price, and the web address.

Lastly, have a good trawl through the web for sailing sites where you can advertise either free or very cheaply, sometimes with multiple photographs.

- Nick

BlueMoment.Com
http://www.bluemoment.com

 

[MonkeyBusiness]

Re: Forget Brokers .......

Which web sites did you advertise on?

 

[Guest]

Re: Forget Brokers .......

Suggest going to a search engine (Yahoo! or the like) and entering "boat sale advertise free" as the search terms - then follow the likely looking leads to sites where you can Advertise Boats for Sale Free. I put mine on two or three and generated a load of responses, although I ended up selling through a broker.
Sites I see immediately are
http://www.boatsforsalenow.co.uk
http://www.apolloduck.co.uk