50ft or 62ft? Is bigger than 50 really too big for the uk?

[jimmy_the_builder]

Thanks for the replies.
I have a shopping list for boat if I'm not going over 53ft;
- Shafts
- Sunpad
- Garage
- Not Flybridge
- 48-53ft LOA
- no sliding door "open" style
- Ideally space for two chart plotters about 12-14" screens

This kind of limits the boats down to a handful at best.

T53 open meats most of this but with so many compromises having researched it a lot more than I had before, that's why I was looking T62 (albeit compromising on the sliding door). T50 sliding door no garage, T58 no garage sliding door. T48 IPS. Pretty much the same story for princess, Azimut, Sunseeker etc

Which brings me right back to should I swallow the bullet and go big...I mean is 9 ft -12 ft really that much more? and will it stop me getting in berths or maybe Ill HAVE to plan things going forwards, and if I'm going big then T62 or v62 is my preffered weapon of choice (used) or do I stay smaller and compromise on one of my other demands? Garage and sunpad are a must, so the compromise would be IPS instead of shafts or no sunpad which would get me shot by the mrs......

Like I said on the other thread, how about the (now discontinued) V53, or V56 (same boat, longer bathing platform)? Both wet-cockpit sportcruisers, sunpad, garage, three cabins (forward double, mid twin, mid bunks). D12s or D13s on shafts.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

- Garage

Having had a tender garage on a Targa 48 many moons ago, I would think twice about buying a boat now with a garage especially if you plan to use the tender regularly. As you know the garage limits the size and shape of the tender you can have and at least on the T48 it was a 2 person job to get the thing in and out of the garage. And the garage severely impeded access to the engines and stole engine bay space. IMHO you can't really beat the convenience of storing the tender on the bathing platform and better still having a hi/lo bathing platform to launch/retrieve it

All IMHO

 

[Omegaelite]

Having had a tender garage on a Targa 48 many moons ago, I would think twice about buying a boat now with a garage especially if you plan to use the tender regularly. As you know the garage limits the size and shape of the tender you can have and at least on the T48 it was a 2 person job to get the thing in and out of the garage. And the garage severely impeded access to the engines and stole engine bay space. IMHO you can't really beat the convenience of storing the tender on the bathing platform and better still having a hi/lo bathing platform to launch/retrieve it

All IMHO

For me i like the clean lines of not having a pwc or rib stuck on the bathing platform, i know its the norm now , i just dont like it. Unfortunatly all the boat vendors dont agree with me apart from on boats over 58ft , apart from the fairline targa 48open which annoyingly has ips....

 

[Omegaelite]

Forgot to add on the list of requirements closed boat with electric roof. Looked at targa 43 before i bought t47 , coudnt be arsed with all the covers.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

I must be invisible. The boats I've suggested meet all the requirements.

 

[zt260]

Have you looked at the atlantis 55

Regds ash

 

[Portofino]

A bit left of field + arguably potentially a more interesting cruising ground than UK south coast ?
http://pierzeroyachts.com/preowned-yachts/2007-franchini-55-emozione-costa-del-sol-spain-5280344/

 

[Omegaelite]

I must be invisible. The boats I've suggested meet all the requirements.

Not invisable just had a chance to look at the v56. What id like is a 2011 onwards version of the v53/56

In 2010 pretty much all the manufacturers changed there design language and gave very modern looking interior and exterior. Fairline t50, t58, t62 , t64 princess v48 , v58 , v62 etc all look very modern. The v56 lools almost exactly the same as my t47.....if im going to go up in money and or size it needs the new design language as well.

As of about 2010 almost all manucturers up to 50ft went ips, and the rest over 50 ft went closed door and no garage up to about 60ft....then they perfectly meet my requirments but are based on some additonal reasearch over the last few days just too big for me

At the end of the day looks like im going to have to compromise on something

 

[NGM]

Having had a tender garage on a Targa 48 many moons ago, I would think twice about buying a boat now with a garage especially if you plan to use the tender regularly. As you know the garage limits the size and shape of the tender you can have and at least on the T48 it was a 2 person job to get the thing in and out of the garage. And the garage severely impeded access to the engines and stole engine bay space. IMHO you can't really beat the convenience of storing the tender on the bathing platform and better still having a hi/lo bathing platform to launch/retrieve it

All IMHO

Mike

I also have a similar list of requirements to Omegaelite. With regard to the garage -we currently have a very heavy tender on our bathing platform and it adds to the aft heavy nature of the ride (given out drives and feul tank positions). Therefore a garage would help on passages whilst a bathing platform could be uutilised when frequently using of the tender. Would you agree or do you think the lack engine room space/access is still too much of a compromise ?

 

[Portofino]

You were whingeing about the max speed of your T47 @ 29 knots .
How about this -turn a few heads and rock a few boats as you blast past about on the Solent , or go to France for lunch and back in a day .
Should have enough left in the kitty for few cosmetic upgrades + ship to Uk
http://en.yacht4web.com/Pershing/50-hard-top/50084/brochure?k=adv

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Would you agree or do you think the lack engine room space/access is still too much of a compromise ?

If the weight of the tender affects the trim of the boat that much, you need a bigger boat! I'm guessing this is a Williams or similar?What happens when you try to level the boat with the drive trims?

Whether the effect on engine space is a compromise too far depends on how well designed it is. If the access into the engine bay is manageable and you can get to all the service points on the engines and other components like batteries, pumps etc then why not have the garage if you want one. The problem with my Targa 48 was that to get to some of the service points on the engines you had to take the tender out of the garage and lift the garage floor which was a complete PITA and meant I didn't check the engines very often

 

[Omegaelite]

You were whingeing about the max speed of your T47 @ 29 knots .
How about this -turn a few heads and rock a few boats as you blast past about on the Solent , or go to France for lunch and back in a day .
Should have enough left in the kitty for few cosmetic upgrades + ship to Uk
http://en.yacht4web.com/Pershing/50-hard-top/50084/brochure?k=adv

No whining about top speed my preffered cruising speed is 22 knots. What i was moaning about is WOT is just 29 knots, at 2000 rpm it should be doing 22 knots instead im running at 2500rpm and 3300 wot at 29 knots

Thus burning loads more fuel at my preffered cruising speed....

 

[Illusion]

No whining about top speed my preffered cruising speed is 22 knots. What i was moaning about is WOT is just 29 knots, at 2000 rpm it should be doing 22 knots instead im running at 2500rpm and 3300 wot at 29 knots

Thus burning loads more fuel at my preffered cruising speed....

Assuming you've got d9's, I don't think you'll be running at over 2500 rpm at wot?

 

[Omegaelite]

Assuming you've got d9's, I don't think you'll be running at over 2500 rpm at wot?

Im sure thats what i wrote down last time i was out as i wanted to check it against some published internet results although brain is tired. Havnt got my notes with me so when check when back home at weekend. WOT only reached 29 (super calm no wind) and 26 knots the rest of the time. Other 47 owners have told me 33 knots whatever the weather and sea. So definetly something off with mine. Engines and exhausts have been rebuilt, next step is copper coating bottem and removing the years of antifoul layers and polishing the props. Just had an auto trim tab system fitted which is supposed to make cruising easier with less throttle so hopefull that will help too. Currently 22 knots is almost Wot for me , which isnt acceptable when i know its about half throttle for most others.

 

[MapisM]

Currently 22 knots is almost Wot for me , which isnt acceptable when i know its about half throttle for most others.

If you are sure to be making a reasonably valid comparison (same boats/engines/gearbox/props, and in similar conditions of load and fouling), then I'm afraid you have very good reasons to be worried.
And not so much because of the lower speed or higher fuel burn as such, but because it implies that you are using the engines, also at cruise speed, above the load they are designed to work.
Which surely doesn't make them any good!

 

[MapisM]

How about this

I sympathize with your suggestion Portofino, but considering also the Arnesons, that could almost be classified as incitement!

 

[Illusion]

Im sure thats what i wrote down last time i was out as i wanted to check it against some published internet results although brain is tired. Havnt got my notes with me so when check when back home at weekend. WOT only reached 29 (super calm no wind) and 26 knots the rest of the time. Other 47 owners have told me 33 knots whatever the weather and sea. So definetly something off with mine. Engines and exhausts have been rebuilt, next step is copper coating bottem and removing the years of antifoul layers and polishing the props. Just had an auto trim tab system fitted which is supposed to make cruising easier with less throttle so hopefull that will help too. Currently 22 knots is almost Wot for me , which isnt acceptable when i know its about half throttle for most others.

Do you have the D9 500's or 575hp?
Either way max revs should be 2500rpm and "book" speed would be 33 knots on the 500's and 35 knots on the 575's, however book speeds are always just a guide and it seems rarely achieved in reality. Clearly your max speed wil depend on fuel/water load as well as gear on the boat inc tenders etc! as well as the state of the hull and stern gear.
Also make sure you're doing a two way gps run, rather than just relying on paddle wheel numbers, which generally need careful calibration.
As a guide we have D9 500's and at the start of the season with a clean bottom and stern gear, but the boat fully loaded (Williams in the garage) and all the kit on board we seem to accumulate, we get 2500 rpm and 32 knots at wot. Obviously as the season progresses we loose about a knot or two through growth, but still manage 30.
From a cruising speed point of view we generally sit a 24-25 knots and just over 2000 rpm, which is very comfortable.
Hope this helps?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Also make sure you're doing a two way gps run, rather than just relying on paddle wheel numbers, which generally need careful calibration.

Yup excellent point. Not only do paddle wheel logs tend to give reduced speed readings as they get more fouled over a season but I've yet to find one that is accurate across all speeds. In other words, you may calibrate it correctly at 10kts but at 25kts its way out or vice versa. As you say always best to measure speed via the GPS on a 2 way run

 

[Omegaelite]

Yup excellent point. Not only do paddle wheel logs tend to give reduced speed readings as they get more fouled over a season but I've yet to find one that is accurate across all speeds. In other words, you may calibrate it correctly at 10kts but at 25kts its way out or vice versa. As you say always best to measure speed via the GPS on a 2 way run

Ive tested using phone, charplottet and logs. All within 1 knot. Have never managed over 29 knots , have the 575 engines. Running 50% fuel, 50% water, empty holding tank and pwc in garage. Had an issue where at wot the enfines would overheat due to exhausts being clogged up, made loads of exhaust noise as well, but thats been resolved now. At 24-25 knots id now still be 95% throttles ......i moved it down to rk marine for its annual service the other week and we maxed at 25-26 against plotter logs and phone.....rk are still trying to work out why. Going to coppercoat the bottem if im going to keep it long term or if im going to upgrade then ill just strip the 5 years of anti foul and anti foul it and polish the prpos and hope that helps.

Was looking at the targa 48 open they have down there yesterdAy and apart from having Ips it does seem to meet 90% of what im after.....seems to be less compromise than the tArga 53 and still small enough to get into marinas. Although for the same money i could have a targa 64 ( early one with sunpad) , but as people have said anything over 53 is going to be to big.....

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Ive tested using phone, charplottet and logs. All within 1 knot. Have never managed over 29 knots , have the 575 engines. Running 50% fuel, 50% water, empty holding tank and pwc in garage. Had an issue where at wot the enfines would overheat due to exhausts being clogged up, made loads of exhaust noise as well, but thats been resolved now. At 24-25 knots id now still be 95% throttles ......i moved it down to rk marine for its annual service the other week and we maxed at 25-26 against plotter logs and phone.....rk are still trying to work out why. Going to coppercoat the bottem if im going to keep it long term or if im going to upgrade then ill just strip the 5 years of anti foul and anti foul it and polish the prpos and hope that helps.

Was looking at the targa 48 open they have down there yesterdAy and apart from having Ips it does seem to meet 90% of what im after.....seems to be less compromise than the tArga 53 and still small enough to get into marinas. Although for the same money i could have a targa 64 ( early one with sunpad) , but as people have said anything over 53 is going to be to big.....

T64 doesn't have much outside space though, the deck-level saloon is very much an indoor space. Styling is nice, and as you say the price of the new T48 makes the old T64 look cheap although you're back to the same problem about having to pre-plan your marina visits.

Ref your T47 performance issue, the question I'd want to ask is 'what's the load factor' on the engines (for which you'll need a tech on board with a vodia tool). This'll tell you if the problem is the engines or the boat.