Emergency ladders on marina pontoons - are they worth having?

[Graham_Wright]

I was involved in this as a business proposition. The wife of the president of Walcon (pontoon builders) spotted our "Ladderelle" (a mix of boarding ladder and passerelle - it didn't sell!) SBS a few years ago and remarked to her husband that it might bit a solution to self rescue in marinas.

We talked to Walcon and they stated they provide pull out loops on the pontoons. You swim to the nearest, grab hold and just haul yourself out. I have a problem with the word just.

We proposed a cheap metal ladder for each pontoon to be sprinkled liberally in each bay. There are problems. They do become fouled. In steel, they also (eventually) rust.

We proposed a ladder that would normally be high above the pontoon and thus, very visible, but would slide down into the water when grabbed enabling the necessary two or three rungs under the surface. Produced in aluminium, it would not rust and, above the water until, use would not become fouled. The structure would always have rails above the pontoon to aid lifting out.

As part of our design process, we surveyed marinas' current provisions and asked for H&S comments. It was a frustrating experience.

Walcon were dismissive and eventually switched to grp ladders. There are still too few and they are too difficult to find. Necessarily they need to be at the root of the fingers otherwise they are obscured by boats.

A very unrewarding experience.

 

[rogerthebodger]

I designed a ladder based on a domestic folding ladder that would be stored under the deck just above the water that could be slid out from the water and fold down.

No fouling on the ladder but accable from the water.

 

[Bilgediver]

Definitely worth it and fitted in our marina some years ago.

 

[jimbaerselman]

Yes, all marinas should have escape ladders on pontoons but if you are in the water alone it will be near impossible to tell where the nearest one is. I saw in Dover marina last week a sign on the end of every finger pontoon, viewable from in the water, showing the direction to the nearest ladder. Excellent idea. If every boat had a boarding ladder at the stern that can be deployed from the water that would be a great help too.

+1 for ladders which can be lowered by a person in the water.

Even vital if you need a tender to reach your boat - I've seen too many people fall in when moving between boat and tender. And one occasion at anchor in the Med when a couple dived in after anchoring, without first launching their dinghy . . .

One managed to swim a couple of hundred meters towards my boat and shout for help. The bloke hung on to their anchor chain. It wasn't easy hauling him (rather over-weight) into my dinghy either.

 

[JVL]

+1. I too have taken an unplanned swim at the yard where we kept our boat.

The distance between water and pontoon deck isn't far but it is impossible to climb onto, especially if you are fully clothed and wearing a lifejacket.

The latter for the pontoon was on the other side of the pontoon from where I fell in so I had to climb out of the water using help from a quickly-arriving bystander and the sterngear from someone else's parked mobo (If it was your boat - thanks! ).

And when I posted a 'thankyou to the bystander, and need more ladders please' on the boatyard's facebook page it was deleted within the day. I guess that is how interested some companies are

Then we should name and shame marinas that do not provide self rescue facilities. Then at the subsequent investigation it can be noted that concerns had been raised as to that marinas blatant disregard for HS as had been noted amongst the boating community . Marina managers / Owners won’t like it ! , tough! Contracts work both ways !

John

 

[Elessar]

Hi
Recently replaced pontoons in our marina seem completely devoid of emergency ladders to aid recovery should someone fall in. Whilst I am sure they are rarely used they do seem to be a useful safety feature and I am wondering how any risk assessment performed by a marina can ignore them. Is their absence the norm in other marinas? welcome your thoughts.

Congratulations on what must be a scuttlebutt first - everyone agrees! We need ladders.
Yes there are different ideas on how. So what if they get fouled? Ladders don't need to be complicated, they just need to be there. Fixed, frequent and obvious.

For marinas that don't have ladders (yet), the ribbon idea used on the Thames is within the gift of like minded boat owners as a quick fix.

For those of you who rescued yourselves using a slack spring - fair play.

 

[glynd]

Having seen someone fall in whilst cutting a corner at speed on a sodden pontoon

Yes, ladders are a good thing!

 

[Greenheart]

I wonder how many ladders, one litre of Copper Coat would cover?

Fouling sounds a feeble reason for not providing them.

Where self-rescue ladders are provided in marinas, are they conspicuously illuminated? I'd imagine the shock of a nocturnal slip into cold water is easily sufficient to wipe the victim's mind of where the ladders are.

 

[Stemar]

I wonder how many ladders, one litre of Copper Coat would cover?Fouling sounds a feeble reason for not providing them.Where self-rescue ladders are provided in marinas, are they conspicuously illuminated? I'd imagine the shock of a nocturnal slip into cold water is easily sufficient to wipe the victim's mind of where the ladders are.

Very rarely illuminated or conspicuous in my experience. BTW, a big +1 to the idea of ensuring your boarding ladder can be easily pulled down from in the water, and ensuring it goes deep enough for a cold, fully oilied and overweight person to be able to climb it. Mine couldn't on the only occasion I needed it and, had I been solo, it's quite possible I wouldn't be here. It can now.

 

[Tranona]

I wonder how many ladders, one litre of Copper Coat would cover?

Fouling sounds a feeble reason for not providing them.

Where self-rescue ladders are provided in marinas, are they conspicuously illuminated? I'd imagine the shock of a nocturnal slip into cold water is easily sufficient to wipe the victim's mind of where the ladders are.

The new ones in our marina are very visible and the whole walkway is illuminated. However, the ladders are spaced out so never really sure that one would know where they are if you fell in. Like the idea of an indicator of which way to go to the nearest as in aircraft or on the motorways, but not sure how practical that would be.

 

[johnalison]

I regret that it is not something that I consider as often as I should. Someone apparently had to be fished out of my marina only this weekend. There are ladders but inevitably not enough for all circumstances.

My only suggestion is to repeat that ladders should be better marked, perhaps with a coloured/flourescent post high enough to be widely seen. If I should fall in without help at hand I know that I can bring down my stern ladder from the water and that it is long enough to make my recovery easy. If I were away from my boat, I think that I would have a better chance if I attempted to reach some boat's stern than find a marina ladder.

Our pontoons are hard enough to recover from, but many Baltic pontoons are at deck level and the situation is even more urgent.

 

[BrianH]

I think that I would have a better chance if I attempted to reach some boat's stern than find a marina ladder.

Our pontoons are hard enough to recover from, but many Baltic pontoons are at deck level and the situation is even more urgent.

My Italian marina has fixed piers and short ladders are provided at each berth (stern-to or bow-to mooring) to help board but are not very practicable, most use a gangway of some sort. These ladders are so short that the lowest rungs are above the water-level at low tide (there is a 1m variation).

Over the years I've pulled two elderly gentlemen out of the water, one on his last gasp clinging to the lowest rung of the top section of his folded-up stern ladder (his berth was privately-owned and had no pier ladder), on a completely deserted pier with the evening light fading and almost invisible under his stern. I had to loosen his stern lines to move his boat forward for clearance to swing the stern ladder down and then pull him up by the scruff of his coat to assist him climb it as he was too cold and exhausted to do it alone.

The other I heard his cries for help from my boat on the next pier and ran round to his own, deserted one, and could help by descending the pier ladder he was clinging to and hauling him high enough to get a foot on the lowest rung. He had torn and bleeding hands from shellfish fouling, having spent a long time trying to unsuccessfully climb a succession of adjacent berth ladders.

Between those two was another old guy found drowned near his boat with the autopsy reporting a high blood-alcohol level. The other two were completely sober but in both cases their gangway had moved to tip them in while boarding their stern-to-moored boats.

Despite reporting each incident to the marina management, no action has been taken to provide sensible ladders to the piers.

 

[stuartwineberg]

An instructor / forumite fell off a boat in the river Itchen in February, he was alone. . Said marinas ladders had to be deployed from the pontoon and couldn’t be reached from the water.
He knew that my ladder could be deployed from the water so he swam to my boat. It probably saved his life.
Marina ladders cost peanuts, why on earth not have them?
Some ladderless Thames marinas have a scheme where owners tie a ribbon to boat ladders that can be deployed from the water.

Slight thread creep but what is the point of a boarding ladder you can’t deploy from the water?

 

[johnalison]

Slight thread creep but what is the point of a boarding ladder you can’t deploy from the water?

There are several uses they could be put to, such as boarding from a dinghy or swimming and my general impression is that most boarding ladders are not readily available to people who have fallen in. I hope I am wrong, but I know owners who tie them up to prevent accidental deployment and have never considered their use for an emergency. My ladder is long and has never give us any concern in spite of being left untied, but even owners of sister ships have been known to tie them. I had though of having a poll on the subject but suspect that results would be skewed by the virtuous.

 

[Greenheart]

Good stories Mr Barnac1e, well done for your efforts to help those gents.

I wonder whether the inertia of marina-management stems from deep-seated Darwinism, such that whatever they design or specify, pay for and fit, in order to protect people from adjacent perils, some will always find a way to slip, injure or endanger themselves?

Or is it just tight-fistedness?

I remember in the 'seventies, lots of things being made of cream-coloured luminous plastic. A luminous ladder roped through an overhead frame with a counterweight to keep it above water when not in use, would be highly visible, reachable and barnacle-proof.

And the marina wouldn't have to pay, to illuminate it.

 

[Hydrozoan]

Yes, there should be ladders and we have them, painted distinctly. But in addition, if there are it obviously makes sense to check their general disposition on the way to, and near, one’s berth – but whether there are or are not, also to note other residents’ boats nearby which have a boardable platform, especially if your own does not. That may all seem obvious, but does everybody read the emergency exit information provided in their hotel room? I suspect not.

 

[mjcoon]

I wonder whether the inertia of marina-management stems from deep-seated Darwinism, such that whatever they design or specify, pay for and fit, in order to protect people from adjacent perils, some will always find a way to slip, injure or endanger themselves?

That's going to the other extreme from "nanny state" viewpoint. And intentionally discounts statistics...

Mike.

 

[Sybarite]

An instructor / forumite fell off a boat in the river Itchen in February, he was alone. . Said marinas ladders had to be deployed from the pontoon and couldn’t be reached from the water.
He knew that my ladder could be deployed from the water so he swam to my boat. It probably saved his life.
Marina ladders cost peanuts, why on earth not have them?
Some ladderless Thames marinas have a scheme where owners tie a ribbon to boat ladders that can be deployed from the water.

I always make sure that the guard wires on the stern are inside the bathing ladder so that it can be pulled down by somebody in the water.

There is sufficient friction to prevent them falling otherwise.

 

[jimbaerselman]

Let's look at this subject in perspective. Here's a quote from a recent UK marine annual casualty review reported by the RYA:

Accessing boats whilst in harbour was also an issue that concerned the panel, as 8 of the 27 fatal incidents involved people accessing boats without wearing a lifejacket.

Now, I don't know how many fatal accidents occurred due to people falling overboard while sailing. My guess is that it's many fewer, but that's my biased observation from 50 years of cruising and racing.

Like Barnac1e, I've been involved in "whilst in harbour" events (3, in fact, one near fatal), and I've heard many more first hand accounts. Say, about ten events all together. Frequent enough not to be reported?

Against that, I've only been indirectly connected (and thus knew of) one "man overboard while at sea" event (peeing over the stern). Obviously I'm aware of other MoB events, because they're more terrifying and newsworthy. So I hazard a wild guess that harbour MoB events outrank sea MoB events anything from 4:1 to 10:1. I'm sure there's a source to find out . . .

Whatever, the implication is that we should put far more effort into reducing/rescuing harbour events. Harbour ladders, water deployable boat ladders, lifejackets, training and practice are all elements which could help. Marina staff should practice heaving dead weight people out of the water; dinghy practice should include heaving a dead weight aboard.

Instead, cruising seminar after cruising seminar concentrates on recovering MoB when sailing short handed . . . dismissing deployable stern ladders as an aid since they'd be unsafe to use in a pitching seaway . . . promoting recovery slings, boom pulley systems.

Yes, I've a bee in my bonnet about this . . .

 

[fisherman]

I watched a 'Saving Lives at Sea' on the ferry to Plymouth on thursday 23rd, can't find it anywhere, but there was an 83 year old in the water by the pontoons in Dartmouth, the ILB crew had a tussle trying to board him. As usual, they had him face away from the boat, so many times more difficult. We boarded a man from the water, he was nearly done in and helpless: face in, grab wrists, arms over the rail ( I can just reach the water from the rail) once his arms are inboard hold the wrists down so shoulders come up, then grab waistband and fold him in over the side. Face out he's just a rigid dead weight, and I know someone who was mob and sustained a permanent back injury from just such an incident. I emailed the RNLI to suggest a transverse stretcher across the rib, with runners to slip it overside at, say 45deg, then a casualty could be slid onto it in the water and the handles used to pull him in. No response as ever.