40ft cruising boats for two?

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Ric

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Can anybody suggest any modern cruising boats in the 40ft range that are designed from outset to be sailed by a couple? Most seem designed for the charter or family market with a huge cockpit that is far too wide for safety, pokey crawl-in cabins at each corner, multiple pokey heads, no decent seaberths, no storage, no tech area, tiny nav area, and a huge saloon sized for ten people which is a total waste of space for a couple.

Ideally I would like:
- Protected cockpit with wheel steering and central pedestal that is narrow enough to be secure in a big sea
- Large principal cabin (idealy forwards) with double berth with side access for use in port and at anchor
- At least one, preferably two, really good sea berths near the centre of the boat
- A single but spacious head, ideally with separate shower
- Large nav table, ideally with good all round view
- Decent tech area & storage both in cockpit and below

I like the layout of the Dehler41DS (especially with some modifications to the rear cabin) but the sail plan is a bit too sporty for comfortable long-distance cruising. The Sirius range also have some interesting and very practical ideas. Can anybody suggest any other boats built within the last ten years or so?
 
Beneteau Sense range should be worth a look - ticks many of your boxes. Moody DS as well but possibly too expensive.

Sense cockpit is very wide but has a centre safety rail.
 
Just out of interest, what makes the Dehler rig "too sporty"?

The general view seems to be that winds are more often on the light side when cruising, where a bit extra sail area can help. And a triple reef and foam luff genoa can change down a gear very quickly when needed (I like a boat where first reef equates to "working sail", with two more reefs to go - perhaps 4th for blue water.

PS just seen previous post and agree that the XC38 looked to be a fantastic boat when saw at SIBS last year - albeit serious dosh beyond my pockets
 
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I like the XC 38, side access to a berth is not that common however you could build one to this design, I sailed on her many years ago and it was a fantastic criuser, if I ever get enough to build my own I'd aim for this...she had side access main double up front, you can just see it in the section forward of saloon.
She had water tight bulkhead up front and lovely cockpit, based on the open 60's of the day 1993-4
http://www.rodgermartindesign.com/portfolio/cetacea-2/
 
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Have a look at the Malo 36 and 39, will meet most of your needs. Reasonable value used, and If you buy a new one they will customise the interior for you.
 
dunedin said:
Just out of interest, what makes the Dehler rig "too sporty"?
Click to expand...

The very large main only has two reefs, and there is no way to hoist a storm trysail as there is only a single track on the mast. Also I suspect that the self-tacking foresail is a bit limiting at broader sailing angles and in heavy weather you can't readily heave-to. I do like the self-tacking foresail for many other reasons though. Overall, it seems to me like it is a great rig for fun/easy sailing but a bit lacking in adaptability for more extreme conditions. I really like a lot of other features of the Dehler so would be prepared to be convinced otherwise by experienced owners, or would be prepared also to invest in some rig changes - eg would be interested to know whether a double foresail set up could be fitted.
 
JomsViking said:
http://nordship.dk/yachts/nordship-40-ds-23#

The 360 and 380 might also be worth a look.

The X's are more to my taste, here's the 38 footer from the crusing line: http://www.x-yachts.com/range/xc/xc-38/

Nordborg Yachts: http://nordborg-baadbyg.dk/en/nordborg_40.htm

(We do build the nicest boats here in DK :)
Click to expand...

All nicely built - but all with crawl in cabins at each corner and a very restrictive sail-plan for extended cruising.

Ideally I would like at least a double forestay with furling stay-sail, and a very habitable front cabin for port/anchor. I don't need space for ten people around the saloon table - which never, ever gets used anyway in the areas I cruise.
 
OK, I have used my extensive knowledge of photoshop (!) to bodge up my idea of a good interior layout for a forty4two boat. It is based on the layout of the Dehler 41DS except that the crawl-in rear cabin is suppressed in favour of a seaberth directly behind the navtable, a "wet" area for storage of waterproofs, and a technical area for compressor, watermaker, tools etc.
 
Ric said:
The very large main only has two reefs, and there is no way to hoist a storm trysail as there is only a single track on the mast. Also I suspect that the self-tacking foresail is a bit limiting at broader sailing angles and in heavy weather you can't readily heave-to. I do like the self-tacking foresail for many other reasons though. Overall, it seems to me like it is a great rig for fun/easy sailing but a bit lacking in adaptability for more extreme conditions. I really like a lot of other features of the Dehler so would be prepared to be convinced otherwise by experienced owners, or would be prepared also to invest in some rig changes - eg would be interested to know whether a double foresail set up could be fitted.
Click to expand...

Adding a third reef should be a very quick and easy upgrade (simply dont understand how boats are supplied without this). I would imagine a 120% or so genoa option may also be easily done, assuming there is the deck reinforcements for tracks (and a self tacking jib is not a sign of sportiness, but sedate-ness - unless attached to a very high speed multi-hull or AC catamaran!).
Intrigued about the bit about not having a second track for a try sail. Is there any production boat available today (except possibly Amel) with such a second track? And is there any experience of try sails being used - eg from the World Rally folks, did they ever get hoisted in practice

PS. And how many modern fin keels heave to effectively - ours certainly doesn't. Don't the heavy weather tactics not change to going faster and trying to get better forecasts to avoid trouble where possible - and keeping moving forward when this doesn't work. Think RKJ observed that experienced far more gales going round in slow Suhali than in 80 ft Multi, which could outrun most weather systems
 
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dunedin said:
Is there any production boat available today (except possibly Amel) with such a second track? s
Click to expand...

Doubt it, fitting anything above the bare essentials on today's AWB's is anathema to the corporate gonks who 'build' boats now.
Even if I was rich I very much doubt I'd buy a new boat.

Edit: Might be tempted by an RM though....or if I was stupidly rich, an Amel.
 
Ric said:
Can anybody suggest any modern cruising boats in the 40ft range that are designed from outset to be sailed by a couple? Most seem designed for the charter or family market with a huge cockpit that is far too wide for safety, pokey crawl-in cabins at each corner, multiple pokey heads, no decent seaberths, no storage, no tech area, tiny nav area, and a huge saloon sized for ten people which is a total waste of space for a couple.

Ideally I would like:
- Protected cockpit with wheel steering and central pedestal that is narrow enough to be secure in a big sea
- Large principal cabin (idealy forwards) with double berth with side access for use in port and at anchor
- At least one, preferably two, really good sea berths near the centre of the boat
- A single but spacious head, ideally with separate shower
- Large nav table, ideally with good all round view
- Decent tech area & storage both in cockpit and below

I like the layout of the Dehler41DS (especially with some modifications to the rear cabin) but the sail plan is a bit too sporty for comfortable long-distance cruising. The Sirius range also have some interesting and very practical ideas. Can anybody suggest any other boats built within the last ten years or so?
Click to expand...

http://www.jryachts.com/boat-details?boatid=797002

...but 46 feet

I think a Malo 39 is hard to beat for a cruising couple, but no side access to fwd double.

http://www.jryachts.com/boat-details?boatid=818537

or how about a Bowman 40? http://www.jryachts.com/boat-details?boatid=484543
 
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How about a Catalina 42 - one of the layouts has a really good double ensuite forward, and the aft double berth makes a very usable seaberth - slept at sea in it myself. For 2 you only need one seaberth. http://www.catalinayachts.com/yachts.cfm?act=model&id=43

I also quite liked the older (pre-current) Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 40DS deck saloon layout, sit in the saloon and look out of big windows. Most cruisers do after all spend more time moored than sailing.

The last of the Moody 36s http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives/moody-36-90s/moody-36.htm and Moody 40s built up to about 2000 were also good as 2-person boats.
 
Rustler 42?

There are two heads admittedly - but you can always use the forward one as extra drying space (or hang a jamon iberico in there as we have at the moment:-). But otherwise it fits all your criteria I think. We cruise two-up and find that one person can handle her easily enough while the other is asleep, including reefing etc.

Really important imho are:
- cutter rig, which makes changing down much simpler than trying to get a scrap of genoa to draw properly
- excellent wheel steering autopilot
- a proper navigator's sea berth with shoulder board
- big main but with three good reefs which can be put in or shaken from the cockpit
- fully battened main with Harken batten cars. One can get the main down even on a run in F8. I've done it, and didn't need to wake the off watch crew
- heaves-to perfectly due to long-ish keel
- lots of storage: we have climbing gear, diving gear, camping, tools, spares, bulk food storage, 4 anchors, two dinghies, fishing kit etc etc.
- proper dedicated nav table and separate chart drawer

Useful is that she's also a very fast boat and reasonably dry in the cockpit (rather wet on the foredeck 'tho). The aft cabin actually gets used the most as the motion there is less, but the forecabin will be cooler once in the tropics. So luxurious to have both options! Besides one needs the extra berths for when children or guests come sailing.
 
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A couple of years ago Jimi from this forum asked the same question...
I suggested the Moody s38 with a single aft cabin. I took him out for a test sail on mine and a week later he put a deposit down on one (before selling his existing boat). Go figure!
The aft cabin actually has a split cushion so with a couple of Lee Cloths it made two very comfortable sea berths. The other advantage to sleeping there is that the emergency hatch above the bed can be left ajar and you can see and talk to the helm...
(Your profile doesn't say where you are...)
 
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