40ft boat and marina fees

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ndc333

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Hi, to consider running costs of first boat. I notice a lot of boats with LOA just over 12m (e.g. Hanse 400). Many marinas appear to charge around 50% more for a boat > 12m. If you get a boat with say 12.1m thats a lot of money to spend for 10cm! So my question is, are the cut offs strictly enforced?, anyone with a 40ft boat can comment?, why do people buy boats at say 12.2m when marina fees are one of the major costs (as apposed to choosing <12m or say getting better value for money with say 13m or 14m?
 
Where are you based? I've never been in a marina that has charged me a different metre rate for being over 12m. Some do offer a cheaper rate under 7 or 8m, e.g. Bangor, but that usually comes with poorer facilities.
 
In my experience, they are enforced quite strictly - two MDL staff measured our boat to an accuracy of an inch using a long tape measure. You can make quite a difference by planning - they will typically measure what they see, so get the anchor off and make sure there is nothing overhanging the stern like davits or a flagpole. I remember watching them measure a yacht with a dismountable bowsprit that was fully extended - that oversight by the owner probably cost him an extra thousand per year!
 
It varies enormously from marina to marina and location to location.

However 12m is a common break point for charges, particularly in the Med where berths are more commonly sized by the berth and often charged by berth size than boat size. some may measure, but for visitors it is common to take the length shown on the boat's registration document.

In the UK some marinas will measure for long term contracts or may take the owner's declared length. Some charge higher per metre rates for over 12m often because there is a limit of the number available. There is no standard, nor consistency in application.
 
When we owned a Jeanneau Sun Legende 41 we met another that said on the side Sun Legende 40. The owner had sawn off a bit from the pulpit and put a transverse bar in the gap, saved him a lot he said.

When we had a W33 we used to tell FRench harbourswe were 9.99m as the rates were in blocks 10-12 being quite a bit more irrespective of the exact figure. One, in Concarneau IIRC asked if we were like many Brit boats, expand in the heat of the day but shrink overnight. I pointed out that our ''33 was 'rounded up' and 9.99 was actually 32'3" and correct He laughed and said never mind we just beat you at rugby! But the truth is that once over the minimum for that ban you might as well be at the maximum but who wants to pay the same as a 11.99m boat whilst only having a 10m one.


We had friends with aSun FIzz who always took the registration papers to the office as the LOA quoted there was measured from the rudder post or something, somewhat less than the truse fig.


In our current look for a new boat we are conscious that having a dinghy in davits will cost us another metre most likely. Our boat in the USA was not charged for davits overhang as long as we were moored bows in. Berths were charged by their size and if you were in one for a bigger boat you paid that price even if you were actually much smaller. Our 47ft trawler was in a 50ft berth as it stuck out too much in a 45ft one and we were asked to move to the big boat (50ft plus) dock and paid for a 50 footer. It pays to know the rules.
 
ndc333 said:
why do people buy boats at say 12.2m when marina fees are one of the major costs (as apposed to choosing <12m or say getting better value for money with say 13m or 14m?
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As the owner of a boat whose specs say 12.3m but part 1 says 12.2 let me address that. Because we didn't think it through? That 20cm does indeed cost me >£500 p.a. with premier although other marinas have breakpoints in different places (e.g. 12.5). The bigger question is why manufacturers built boats just over 12m. Because back in the day a "41 ft boat" was "A Thing"? Bizarrely I note that companies (e.g. Moody) are still doing it, though the Najad being discussed in a scuttlebutt thread is more sensible 11.99m.

On the upside, if you're importing a non-tax-paid yacht, 12m is the break point above which there's no duty to pay (only VAT).
 
ndc333 said:
Hi, to consider running costs of first boat. I notice a lot of boats with LOA just over 12m (e.g. Hanse 400). Many marinas appear to charge around 50% more for a boat > 12m. If you get a boat with say 12.1m thats a lot of money to spend for 10cm! So my question is, are the cut offs strictly enforced?, anyone with a 40ft boat can comment?, why do people buy boats at say 12.2m when marina fees are one of the major costs (as apposed to choosing <12m or say getting better value for money with say 13m or 14m?
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We've cruised our 12.48m (40 Ocean) from UK via Normandy, Biscay, Spanish Rias and Portugal. Firstly, not all places have a strict 12 or 14m price bracket. E.g. in Portimao the cutoff is 12.5m, although most other places had 12m or 14m. Many of them however were happy to charge us for the 12m, as we were only a little bit longer and happy to take a berth for a 12m boat. Some were strict, some you had to negotiate, some didn't want to see the SSR anyways and so I would usually say we're 12m long and 4m wide which was never a problem.

Speaking of the SSR, when you apply for it, nobody comes measuring your boat, you just type the length into a website and are sent a certificate, so you might just round to 12m when filling out the form on the website. Never once has anyone actually measured our boat (not even me - I suspect it's a bit longer because I had to modify the bow roller to fit the oversized Rocna).

The beam matters more, at least in Spain and Portugal. Many of the 12m long berths are only for boats up to 4m wide. Although beam isn't on the SSR, you don't want to round that one down - often there was exactly enough space for a fender between the boat next to us and ours.
 
The Westerly Storm is 10.1m.

That 10cm is something else to watch out for when you buy a boat and naively imagine that the marina will round off to the nearest metre.
 
2 other factors here.

IRPCS have slightly tighter rules for boats over 12m so not that surprising that some marina operators should align their bands to that.

And also re 12.1 or whatever. Many boats are sized in feet. Even German / French builders may lable their offering a 36 or a 40 or whatever. If they want to get to a sensible size in feet then it might be an illogical size in metres.
 
jac said:
2 other factors here.

IRPCS have slightly tighter rules for boats over 12m so not that surprising that some marina operators should align their bands to that.

And also re 12.1 or whatever. Many boats are sized in feet. Even German / French builders may lable their offering a 36 or a 40 or whatever. If they want to get to a sensible size in feet then it might be an illogical size in metres.
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However those "size" labels have no direct connection with an actual measurement in either feet or metres. They are just labels to indicate where they sit in a range or the segment the marketing people want the boat to be seen in. so an early 2000s Bav 34 is 36' long, the 36 was 37' and the 37 was over 38'. The current 34 is 33', but actually started life called a 32. You can find similar examples in just about every manufacturers' offerings whether they label them in feet or metres - I just chose these examples because I have owned or considered buying them.
 
My Sun Odyssey 30i is 8.99m. I assume that’s deliberate. In many ways she feels like a 12 metre boat, but I only pay for 9. Winning!
 
richardabeattie said:
The OP is considering a 40 footer as his first boat.
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Lucky him.

If he can afford it then why not. It will be less affected by the elements than a similar design 25 footer and either will damage a neighbour if it all goes wrong. With modern sail handling aids the loads should be no different at the end of the winch handle. The comfort also means that he may get more use and SWMBO may be more likely to come as well than if they are camping in a 25 footer.
 
Larger boats generally cost about the same per square metre of water occupied to berth as smaller boats. I've just done a quick analysis using a Bavaria Cruiser 37 as compared to a Bavaria Cruiser 46 which have "hullprints" of 42.3SqM and 63.4SqM respectively.

Using the published tariff of Brighton marina the B37 costs £106.16/SqM compared to £104.25/SqM for the B46; the larger boat therefore being about 2% cheaper. This ignores the fact that the larger boat generally needs a larger fairway behind the berth to allow it safe passage in to and out of its berth.

By my experience generally the more traditional marinas tend to be more expensive for smaller boats relative to larger boats as their tariff structures have not been updated to reflect the fashion for wide beamed; wide aft quarters modern boats.

So, whilst this discussion is generally about the absolute fee payable by boat owners, those owners with boats falling in the 12m+ bracket should be slightly comforted that they are generally not paying more than smaller boats; the additional cost simply reflects their individual desire and decsion to own a larger boat.
 
Robih said:
Larger boats generally cost about the same per square metre of water occupied to berth as smaller boats. I've just done a quick analysis using a Bavaria Cruiser 37 as compared to a Bavaria Cruiser 46 which have "hullprints" of 42.3SqM and 63.4SqM respectively.

Using the published tariff of Brighton marina the B37 costs £106.16/SqM compared to £104.25/SqM for the B46; the larger boat therefore being about 2% cheaper. This ignores the fact that the larger boat generally needs a larger fairway behind the berth to allow it safe passage in to and out of its berth.
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Our club is changing to the SqM basis for exactly that reason. It allows some reconfiguration of the fingers to slightly increase the number of berths. The rate is set so that the overall income remains roughly the same. As the owner of a modern short fat boat I am one of the losers - but only about £70 a year. However there is a pile in between me and my neighbour (another fat boat) so we have about a metre between us. The fairway width is fixed (and tight!) so there is still a length restriction. I minimise that problem by having a bow thruster, as do both my neighbours.
 
ndc333 said:
....... 12.2m when marina fees are one of the major costs (as apposed to choosing <12m or say getting better value for money with say 13m or 14m?
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LOA is only one factor when considering the usable space in a boat. So 11 metre loa may give you far more usable internal volume than something of 13 mts, depending on it's overall design, beam and topsides. The 11 metre boat may sail like a barrel or it may not. Few people choose a boat solely on the accommodation, though arguably more a doing so.

With linear marina pricing a modestly larger boat is a good deal; At £500 per metre £4500 will give you the pokey space of a 9 m yacht, whereas an extra fifteen hundred quid puts you in the 36ft club which can be very lavish.
Even without the 100% increase over 12m (which is questionable as pointed out), I think you are in the land of diminishing returns unless you have a very good reason for ownership of such a large boat.
 
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