3rd reef???

[Oscarpop]

I was contemplating whether to put a third reefing line in, but obviously it will be a little bit of an embuggerance.
SHMBO asked whether we really needed one, and it occurred to me that she possibly had a point.

As the wind increases, we tend to have sails in these states.

1. Full main /jib
2 1st reef in main/ full jib
3. 2nd reef in / full jib
4. 2nd reef in/ partially furled jib
5. Partially furled jib
6. Bare poles
7. Praying loudly and crying.

So, can the forumites please advise as to whether they have a third reef and whether they often need to use it in anger.

 

[Boathook]

I have a 3rd reef and have never used it, but then so far I have managed to avoid the weather where it would be used such as gales. One day maybe, so it is there ready to use.

 

[Billjratt]

Well, we don't know what you're sailing, but in a situation where you had to sail off a lee shore in a strong breeze, you may need the balance from a reefed main, which will be a better shape (flatter) than your average rolled genny.

 

[Oscarpop]

Just found a very good solution on a cruisers website:


Our boom has horn at the mast end, and the sail has the third reefing point already in it.

The suggestion is that when the sail has the second reef in, you can remove the first reefing line from the boom ( single line reefing BTW)and use it as the third reefing line. You then drop the sail so that the third reefing point goes over the horns at the boom end and " Voila" job done.


Can someone please pull this arguement apart if possible.

Many thanks.

 

[Bav34]

We have one but just can't imagine ever being 'caught out' where we would need it.

Our main sailing area after The Solent is the west country and north and south Brittany with a port rarely more than 30 miles away.

Modern weather forecasting just isn't THAT bad.

 

[snooks]

Can someone please pull this arguement apart if possible.

When the time comes to need a 3rd reef you don't really want to be re reeving your reefing lines by standing on the coachroof of a bouncy boat.

Having said that the one time I needed the 3rd reef the forecast was orrid and we needed to get back. Sheltered waters, but funnelling wind....went up to 46 knots, mostly around 30-35. But we knew this from the start so before we upped anchor I re threaded the 1st reef so it was the 2nd and the 2nd reef so it was the 3rd, this way I started off with three reefs but could go back to 2 reefs if I wanted to.

If I simple re threaded the 1 st reef to be come the 3rd I wouldn't have enough string to hoist the main up to the 2nd reef if the wind eased.

This was with slab reefing, bull horns/spectacles for all 3 reefs

 

[Bav34]

Just found a very good solution on a cruisers website:


Our boom has horn at the mast end, and the sail has the third reefing point already in it.

The suggestion is that when the sail has the second reef in, you can remove the first reefing line from the boom ( single line reefing BTW)and use it as the third reefing line. You then drop the sail so that the third reefing point goes over the horns at the boom end and " Voila" job done.


Can someone please pull this arguement apart if possible.

Many thanks.

We have in line reefing too with the first and second reefs already attached. The line for the third reef is already at the end of the boom but not attached.

If we HAD to use the third reef it would be a relatively simple matter of attaching the line to the leech of the sail and dropping the luff over the gooseneck horns.

The problem with that it that you would be doing it in very stormy conditions with someone out on the deck.

I have always thought that IF I envisaged having to use the third reef (can't imagine when ... see above) ... that I would preset the reefing to reef to 2 and 3, not 1 and 2 which keeps my crew in the cockpit.

 

[prv]

I don't have one, and have had a couple of times when I wished I did. If and when we get a new mainsail made, I will ask for a third reef to be added.

This is on a smaller boat with a big main (the designer once described her as overcanvassed, though it does let her go well in the light stuff) so I need to reef in much less wind than bigger boats.

Pete

 

[jimi]

I've got a 3rd reef. TBH I't need to be F8 before it went in. I would use it as it is a fractional mast and I'd want the main as additional support to the mast if in heavy seas or wind to help stop the mast panting

I have 2 lines for the third reef, one for the luff and a separate one for the leach

 

[YachtAllegro]

I'd have though "no", for two reasons.
One, if you do the sort of normal sailing most of us do, you're never going to be out in the strength of wind that would require it.
Two, if you do the ocean crossing sort of sailing where you may not be able to avoid that sort of wind, you probably really need a proper trisail, which will be much heavier material and so less likely to shred itself to pieces the first time it flogs.

Cheers
Patrick

 

[lw395]

Some people have a permanent loop of small cord or bungee running around between reefing clew 2 and 3. A loop of thick whipping twine on the end of the reefing line can be quickly an easily tied to the messenger loop to rig the third reef.
For cruising, if you have a large main, you could probably get away with rigging reefs 2 and three, with the first reef put in 'permanently' before you set off.
For racing, a 3 rd reef is often required by the SI's, or is an alternative to a trisail.

I've never used the third reef, but like the bilge pump, you want it to be there in case.
I don't think I'd want the extra line in the boom though, let alone a third reef permanently rigged up the leach.

 

[snooks]

If we HAD to use the third reef it would be a relatively simple matter of attaching the line to the leech of the sail and dropping the luff over the gooseneck horns.

Surley you should be attaching it around (or to) the boom first, not the leech cringle?

 

[[10753]]

I have a third reef. In the 17 years I've had the slab main I've never used the third. Last week we had two slabs in with working jib. Was blowing 5/6 gusting 7. Boat was well balanced.

Luckily I can get 2 points on each horn making reefing much easier but I must admit my third reef line is not connected. Think I will change this imminently as last week I had no where to go except thumble about swapping lines which is far from ideal.

Prior to that I had a boom roller with horse shoe configuration so can't really say how much I folded away !

 

[prv]

Some people have a permanent loop of small cord or bungee running around between reefing clew 2 and 3.

That's an interesting idea. I wouldn't be able to fit a third set of reef pendants, because I have a square solid timber boom with one reef on each side and nowhere for a third. So I'd need a portable tackle of some kind for the clew, and that looks like a useful trick to help rig it when needed. The tack pendant would be a simple short lanyard with a carbine hook on the end.

Pete

 

[Bav34]

Surley you should be attaching it around (or to) the boom first, not the leech cringle?

Nope.

The line is already at the end of the boom and just needs to be tied to the leech cringle with a bowline.

Loop the luff over the gooseneck horn, tighten the main halyard from the cockpit and wind the reef in from the cockpit.

 

[Oscarpop]

Some people have a permanent loop of small cord or bungee running around between reefing clew 2 and 3. A loop of thick whipping twine on the end of the reefing line can be quickly an easily tied to the messenger loop to rig the third reef.
.

It's been a long week, and I'm not sure I can visualise this. Can you please explain as it seems to be a very good idea.

 

[Tintin]

I didn't used to have 3rd reef, then a few years ago I wished I did have, so that winter had it put in. Since then I have used it several times, and each time I have been glad to have it.

It has meant that I have gone out when the forecast is suggesting windier days with some degree of greater confidence.

I tend to sail solo so reef down earlier than some may do - I'm quite happy to go slower and heel less - and also my Leisure 27 loads up the weather helm if there is too much main.

 

[lw395]

It's been a long week, and I'm not sure I can visualise this. Can you please explain as it seems to be a very good idea.

OK, I'll try, but probably make things less clear!
The end of the reefing line has a loop of much thinner line running across the cut end, as part of the whipping. Some people have all their halyards etc finished like this, so a halyard can be pulled into place by a mousing line.

When the second reef is in, the third reefing clew eye is say 4ft up the leach and hard to reach to pull the reefing line through it. Imagine there is a small line already running through it, ready to tie the reefing line to and pull the reefing line up the leach, through the eye and back down to the boom. That small line can be there permanently ready if it is a loop running between the two reefing eyes. A loop with a tail of some sort means you can tie the reefing line to it easily.
Some racing boats will have these for all the reefing lines, as we don't like all that rope flapping about around the leach when it's only used offshore.

 

[Oscarpop]

OK, I'll try, but probably make things less clear!
The end of the reefing line has a loop of much thinner line running across the cut end, as part of the whipping. Some people have all their halyards etc finished like this, so a halyard can be pulled into place by a mousing line.

When the second reef is in, the third reefing clew eye is say 4ft up the leach and hard to reach to pull the reefing line through it. Imagine there is a small line already running through it, ready to tie the reefing line to and pull the reefing line up the leach, through the eye and back down to the boom. That small line can be there permanently ready if it is a loop running between the two reefing eyes. A loop with a tail of some sort means you can tie the reefing line to it easily.
Some racing boats will have these for all the reefing lines, as we don't like all that rope flapping about around the leach when it's only used offshore.

Many thanks. That is clearer.
Although I would still need to untie the first line from the boom to attach it to the small line, which could be hellish.

I think that facing the possibility of silly winds on distance cruising, I would happily change reef 1 to 2 and then 2 to 3 well in advance.

 

[snooks]

Nope.

The line is already at the end of the boom and just needs to be tied to the leech cringle with a bowline.

OK I'll rephrase that

It should go from the boom (wrapped around it with a bowline tied back on itself if you have a loose footed main or to a fitting on the boom if you don't), up to the cringle, and down to the end of boom before disappearing into it. Otherwise when you do come to reef you'll just be pulling the sail mostly aft (and less down) at an awkward angle, rather than down and back as it should be which gives you a better purchase and will hold the clew down close to the boom, where it should be.