3rd Party Damages My Yacht Why Claim On My Insurance?

Surely you take out "comprehensive" insurance so that in the event of a claimable incident you go to your own insurer - that's why you take out comprehensive insurance. You would only need to approach the other parties insurer if you have no insurance or only 3rd party yourself.
 
JumbleDuck said:
I still don't believe you. It's well established that insurers can refuse to pay out for anything which might have reasonably been foreseen. Now you say that they don't need to pay out for things which haven't been foreseen. What, in that case, is the point of having insurance at all?
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You seem to have been brainwashed by the PC blame culture - I bet you also vote Labour :)

Luckily for the rest of us courts are more likely to determine claims based on the law rather than what you believe :)
 
bedouin said:
You seem to have been brainwashed by the PC blame culture - I bet you also vote Labour :)

Luckily for the rest of us courts are more likely to determine claims based on the law rather than what you believe :)
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Thank you for your refreshingly different and entertaining opinion.
 
This thread has taken a bizarre turn !

If a boat next to mine caused damage to my boat, too bloody right I'd blame them, that doesn't make me a Marxist just realistic and if it was me, hopping mad.

Likewise ' act of god '; surely if a boat drags into another it's negligence, it would take a very smart lawyer carrying a machine gun to get me to agree that was up to the almighty...:rolleyes:
 
Thread drift galore.

I haven't seen anyone claim that the owner of the boat where the mast fell down was not liable. But there are conditions for liability to be in place, such as causality, and yes, an element of negligence. Any reasonable boat owner would not keep their boat in a state where the mast could fall down onto their neighbours, so it would seem obvious that there is a liability. Had the mast been moved by a tornado for example, an event a reasonable owner could not be expected to prepare for, there would be no liability.

My experiences with insurance on matters similar to this have been twofold. My insurers seem to be very willing to pursue matters on my behalf, and probably more competent at it than I would be. However, they then also sometimes seem to settle for less than full compensation, in particular if they happen to be the insurers on both sides of the matter. This latter point might be worth checking for before engaging with them.
 
I had a boat get caught on to the font of mine a couple of years ago whilst my boat was on it's pontoon. About £1800 worth of damage. The owner left all his details (was actually moored opposite me) inc insurance. I gave the details to my insurance company but they didn't pursue, just paid for it themselves.
 
silly things happen with insurers.

How do I know this.....

Arriving at a roundabout in my car, I stopped to let a motorcyclist enter from the right.

He touched his front brake whilst on the roundabout in damp conditions, he fell off the bike whilst going about 5mph.
He lay under the bike and I left my car at the white line where I had stopped to assist him.

He then started shouting abuse at me for distracting him and causing him to fall off.

To cut a long story short.....
His insurance company was the same as mine and I ended up paying for his bike dents and scratches although I had witnesses who's were behind me, saying it was in no way my fault.

I appealed via the insurance ombud's and got nowhere.....

Crazy or fraudulent or what??

I now insure with well known companies, pay for a protected no claims, and have legal cover, but the problem is, that incident is on my records and increases any other insurance for 5 years.

S.
 
mihtjel said:
Thread drift galore.

I haven't seen anyone claim that the owner of the boat where the mast fell down was not liable. But there are conditions for liability to be in place, such as causality, and yes, an element of negligence. Any reasonable boat owner would not keep their boat in a state where the mast could fall down onto their neighbours, so it would seem obvious that there is a liability. Had the mast been moved by a tornado for example, an event a reasonable owner could not be expected to prepare for, there would be no liability.
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Yes - it depends on what happened. Had for example the boat owner recently had a survey that said the mast/rigging was fine then he would not be liable, but potentially the surveyor would.

To be honest I regard myself as a fairly careful boat owner and I keep my boat well maintained - I have never really considered the risk that my mast might fall down in the marina in any conditions, and I see it difficult to see how it might happen (I reckon at least 3 stays would have to fail). Also I don't recall ever hearing of this happening before.

You would not want to have to go to court to argue this one if the owner did not admit liability
 
I'm the OP.

The offending yacht has been on the finger pontoon next us for at least 3 years, I've never seen her move and, although a reasonable modern Hanse 32, looks absolutely s**t covered in algae, loads of growth on the hull etc... Owners are never there when I have been in the marina.

Saw marina staff taking her sails off a couple of weeks ago - seems a bit of a co-incidence that shortly after the mast collapses.

So it was a windy night - surely a properly maintained boat in a secure harbour with no sails up should not suffer a mast failure?

I may know nothing about the legalities of insurance but I would have thought that if my mast collapsed and damaged a neighbour - common decency would be to apologise, accept liability and get things sorted out!
 
dewent said:
I'm the OP.
I may know nothing about the legalities of insurance but I would have thought that if my mast collapsed and damaged a neighbour - common decency would be to apologise, accept liability and get things sorted out!
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I agree with your sentiments entirely but it is best to advise your insurers of the event and let them sort it out. First thing they will do is appoint a surveyor to confirm damage and then they will most likely want at least 2 quotes for the work. There is of course nothing to stop you also quoting and, in my case, I got the repair job on my own boat. Whether he is covered under his insurance may depend on whether he's covered "all risks" or "named risks". He will (I think) only be personally liable if you can prove negligence.
 
JumbleDuck said:
Am I really not liable if I could not foresee the event which caused the damage? "Sorry, guv, I had no idea that gust would come / that mooring line would break / that burst of astern wouldn't work, so I'm not liable. Have a nice day."

I'd have thought it far more likely that my insurers would cover me for the unforeseeable and refuse to cough up for the obviously predictable.

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+1. If you erect a 30-40' pole and brace it in a vertical position with a few wires, it's reasonable to predict, if you don't look after the maintenance, that gravity will eventually take effect.
 
one wonders if the marina has taken over the boat in lieu of payment of fees.

Is the boat chained up ?


If the marina 'owns' the boat, then they are liable for all your costs. That may explain their comments in the OP.


If indeed, they did take it over, they should have assessed the boat's condition at that point in time, and that would have included the mast and rigging. As a marina operator, it is entirely reasonable that they should be familiar with risk assessments of boats, and also have an increased duty of care as a consequence.
 
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It would probably help if this thread were to be split in two.
One for personal liability for tortious liability, specifically negligence in this case, and the other for insurance law/contract, as they are two very separate things.
 
As sarabande says, could be marina has taken boat over. Worse ,is the boat insured - how many on here have been asked to prove insurance?
Maybe a bit of detective work through the SSR and the marina and a polite letter to the owner just to see if he is alive and aware of the incident.
Could be the marina will be the ones paying out.
 
Sorry to be pedantic guys but the situation is quite simple. Those who advocate what 'should happen' and what 'might happen' are rather idealised. The reality is simply this.
The offending vessel is either insured or it isnt. Contact the owner and ask him to contact his insurers etc as per my first post.
If it is not insured or if the vessels insurers are not prepared to deal with your claim (and you mention the whole host of uninsured losses that they could avoid incurring, ie, having to charter replacement vessels etc) then you go thru your own insurers.
Whether they (your insurers) are prepared to include your excess in their claim against the other insurers will depend upon the quality of your own insurers.
Ok thats the insured bits. Now irrespective of all this insurance malarky, there is the question of personal responsibility. If the adjoining boat owner has been negligent then he will have a personal liability. Personally I suspect that a guy who has a crappy boat which isnt looked after being prepared to put his hand up and offer to pay for your damage, is remote. This would involve you, or your insurers in a negligence claim against him could possible end in the courts. Not insurmountable as claims for less than £10k can be issued online via the small claims court. Winning however is not the same as recovery and getting the dosh can be very difficult indeed.
So...contact owner and get him to report the incident. You then contact his insurer and ask them to appoint a surveyor. If that doesnt work, go thru your own insurer.
Me, Lawyer with 35 years in own insurance company.
 
The point that the marina may have taken the offending boat over suddenly seems very pertinent; given the condition being bad enough to have the mast fall on a neighbouring boat, it seems almost a fair bet the owner has croaked or done a runner cutting his losses !

I know someone who got a very good boat as a marina dispersal for unpaid fees after she had been left for a few years.

Can't think why this didn't occurr to me earlier, other than general daftness and being overcome with the outrage of being knobbled by a neighbouring boat.

Bet the owner of the culprit boat is long gone, one way or another...
 
Are insured with SAGA ?? If you are I pity you If my experience with them is anything to go by !!
 
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