MapisM
Well-Known Member
Why, does "production" imply a somewhat more advanced completion than "in build"?
Just curious from a language standpoint.
350 jobs to go at Princess - large scale restructuring.
- Thread starter longjohnsilver
- Start date
Just curious from a language standpoint.
MapisM
Well-Known Member
LOL, hard to argue with that.
It's just the fact that nowadays, quite often the first thought goes to finding a new owner with more money than sense (so to speak) rather than someone with a bit of both, which drove my comments.
And that ain't a good recipe for long term industrial development in the old continent, methink.
Btw, all what I previously said applies also to non-UK builders, of course.
Ferretti is the most obvious example that springs to mind.
ChrisJefferies
Well-Known Member
Here's our story on this, with the full statement from Princess at the bottom:
http://www.mby.com/news/princess-yachts-restructuring-job-losses-50484
http://www.mby.com/news/princess-yachts-restructuring-job-losses-50484
benjenbav
Well-Known Member
LOL, hard to argue with that.
It's just the fact that nowadays, quite often the first thought goes to finding a new owner with more money than sense (so to speak) rather than someone with a bit of both, which drove my comments.
And that ain't a good recipe for long term industrial development in the old continent, methink.
Btw, all what I previously said applies also to non-UK builders, of course.
Ferretti is the most obvious example that springs to mind.
I once nearly gave myself a hernia when I read how everyone thought the wife of a particular Russian oligarch had impeccable taste in fine art. I mean to say, let's imagine the scene as someone with, to all intents and purposes, unlimited spending power walks into your Mayfair gallery. Hmm, "Oi, Terry. Bring up them Monets from the cellar will you. And make sure they're dry."
But, doing it without a balance sheet is always going to build in the funding of someone else's profit as well as your own and is pretty tough when the business involves the construction of big capital items.
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Agreed. Thats how much of Italian industry works and even large manufacturers rely on an extensive network of sub-suppliers to provide components for the finished product. The attitude in many large/medium sized Italian companies, particularly family owned ones, seems to be why do I need to make an investment in machinery and personnel to make something that my friend Stefano can make just down the road probably better and for a cheaper price? I think this is also driven by the stupid employment regulations in Italy which make it very difficult and costly for companies to make workers redundant so companies operating in a volatile market are reluctant to take on new workers to make components that they can buy in
longjohnsilver
Well-Known Member
Hmm I sniff bullsh1t, quote
Princess continues to outperform the yacht industry in the face of unprecedented challenges. Persistent unfavourable euro/sterling exchange rates, recessionary pressures in target markets, and hurricane-force storms in 2014 that caused hundreds of millions of pounds worth of damage across the South West, meant that the company reported a modest loss – £11.3m on turnover of £239.5m – in 2014. (For context, Princess posted a profit of £4.8m in 2013.)
Exchange rates and recessionary pressures, yes, but 2014 storms and out performance of the industry (by what yardstick?) is looking for smoke and mirror reasons to explain their losses. Surely all Princess prices are in Sterling so it's the European buyer who is adversely affected by current exchange rates, or gains, if buying from USA.
Princess continues to outperform the yacht industry in the face of unprecedented challenges. Persistent unfavourable euro/sterling exchange rates, recessionary pressures in target markets, and hurricane-force storms in 2014 that caused hundreds of millions of pounds worth of damage across the South West, meant that the company reported a modest loss – £11.3m on turnover of £239.5m – in 2014. (For context, Princess posted a profit of £4.8m in 2013.)
Exchange rates and recessionary pressures, yes, but 2014 storms and out performance of the industry (by what yardstick?) is looking for smoke and mirror reasons to explain their losses. Surely all Princess prices are in Sterling so it's the European buyer who is adversely affected by current exchange rates, or gains, if buying from USA.
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
I always laugh when companies blame a high Sterling exchange rate for their woes these days because of course Sterling is nowhere near the values it attained, particularly against the Euro, prior to 2008. Princess managed to sell plenty of boats prior to 2008. Yes of course it is the European buyer who is adversely affected in having to pay more Euros to buy his Princess but what the MD means is that the exchange rate is making it more difficult to compete on price against European manufacturers
As for describing a £11m loss as modest, I suspect their will be a few high ups at LVMH spluttering into their morning espressos reading that comment
rafiki_
Well-Known Member
MM, for me, "production" means a pipeline of product in sequence build, which is probably not appropriate for luxury motor yacht build. In build means the boat build has started, and for the 95, this probably means the first hull is being laid up. Will find out more at LIBS next week.
jfm
Well-Known Member
Agreed, but I think it is a diversion from the question asked. Is the hull #1 off the 95 in build or is it just a 3D model on some software? Has someone made and paid for the the tooling (which is a big cheque to write)?
jfm
Well-Known Member
Agreed, and just to clarify I wasn't criticising the subcontracting method as intrinsically bad or inferior. I was just saying that a boat builder using this method must be sure to get the quality out of subcontractors who, by virtue of the process, have an encouragement to quote low ball and might have others demanding their resources for more money (point being, the boat builder has no control over these factors). I'm not saying boatbuilders will not be successful in getting the quality, and there are plenty of floating proofs of that
jfm
Well-Known Member
The Princess statement is heavily wordsmithed, and not particularly skilfully, but I suppose it does the job for a press release
I wish them well in being brave enough to restructure out of the unprofitable stuff and rationalise their manufacture, because the finished product is great. But for long term survival, they need to make cash and so they need to make big changes. On their past form it is valid to question whether they know what changes to make
paul salliss
Well-Known Member
There has been much talk over several years about Fairline and Princess on this forum, for anyone caught up in the negativity it is clearly very sad, no one likes to see any company shedding staff, even more so when they are British, but a potential positive to come from all of this may just be that the many other brands out there ( a few of which offer real quality ) may now get a more serious look from potential buyers. I may well be in the market for a bigger boat in the future, I won't bother looking at the above names brands
rafiki_
Well-Known Member
Dunno, but will try to find out next week.
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
I don't understand that. Princess have shed labour to ensure that they are going to be in business for longer. Can they be blamed for that?
Anders_P42
Well-Known Member
Is there really a need for 43, 49, 52, 56, 60, 64, 68, 72, 75, 82, 88 and 98 models!? With so many models across the range they can't be mass producing any. They must spend a fortune on design and tooling, perhaps they should have focused on less models with more volume on each model and increased manufacturing efficiency. Too late now I suppose, they've already burned the cash creating the product line up.
jfm
Well-Known Member
Crikey! Havent seen it listed like that. I don't know about "need" but the evidence indicates it isn't good business, EXCEPT that the big losses are on the bigger stuff and it would be very interesting to see P's results split between the financially awful 40m style stuff and the models you list there. It is possible that the<98foot stuff in isolation is cash generative, thus perhaps proving that such a bunched up model list is a good thing. I dunno at all cos I don't have the data
BTW, I don't know but I thought 75 replaces 72. 72 has an awful hull and I would never consider owning one but 75 looks an outstandingly good design and I hope will sell well. I believe sunskr 75 is selling profitably like hot cakes so that ??£2.3m segment/23metres might be active (I'm talking flybridges here)
henryf
Well-Known Member
I've said for a long time that the Princess range looks massively over populated.
Select a few core models, throw away all the old fashioned ways of pricing, trying to pull wool over eyes by charging hundreds of thousands of pounds for a couple of extra feet, trying to hide depreciation and so on and offer a cohesive well priced range.
No one questions the direction of their designs, stepping off a Princess onto any other brand makes their competition feel small and cramped inside. There is nothing offensive to put people off, just a line up that I as an owner and fan couldn't list due to the complexity and overlap. In many cases the differences between models are minuscule, little more than moving the galley or shuffling round a couple of bulkheads. They are like the Chinese constantly having to launch a new model every 2 minutes rather than perfecting a more streamlined, long term line up.
From a laymans perspective you get the sense of a really strong company hiding away in there somewhere, it just needs someone to discover it and arrange all the components properly. The trouble is the boat industry isn't exactly renowned for being cutting edge in their thinking.
Henry
Edited to say that you left off the S65 from your list and of course some lengths have different models within them, V52, 52 Flybridge etc.
Select a few core models, throw away all the old fashioned ways of pricing, trying to pull wool over eyes by charging hundreds of thousands of pounds for a couple of extra feet, trying to hide depreciation and so on and offer a cohesive well priced range.
No one questions the direction of their designs, stepping off a Princess onto any other brand makes their competition feel small and cramped inside. There is nothing offensive to put people off, just a line up that I as an owner and fan couldn't list due to the complexity and overlap. In many cases the differences between models are minuscule, little more than moving the galley or shuffling round a couple of bulkheads. They are like the Chinese constantly having to launch a new model every 2 minutes rather than perfecting a more streamlined, long term line up.
From a laymans perspective you get the sense of a really strong company hiding away in there somewhere, it just needs someone to discover it and arrange all the components properly. The trouble is the boat industry isn't exactly renowned for being cutting edge in their thinking.
Henry
Edited to say that you left off the S65 from your list and of course some lengths have different models within them, V52, 52 Flybridge etc.
Last edited:
wakeup
Well-Known Member
Isn't there also. A v39?
Anders_P42
Well-Known Member
True and the 72 fly that jfm correctly said is being dropped can be re-inserted as S72.
Wouldn't it be better for them to offer different layouts on a smaller number of hulls rather than, as you say, charging a fortune for an extra couple of feet?
benjenbav
Well-Known Member
I've said for a long time that the Princess range looks massively over populated.
Select a few core models, throw away all the old fashioned ways of pricing, trying to pull wool over eyes by charging hundreds of thousands of pounds for a couple of extra feet, trying to hide depreciation and so on and offer a cohesive well priced range.
No one questions the direction of their designs, stepping off a Princess onto any other brand makes their competition feel small and cramped inside. There is nothing offensive to put people off, just a line up that I as an owner and fan couldn't list due to the complexity and overlap. In many cases the differences between models are minuscule, little more than moving the galley or shuffling round a couple of bulkheads. They are like the Chinese constantly having to launch a new model every 2 minutes rather than perfecting a more streamlined, long term line up.
From a laymans perspective you get the sense of a really strong company hiding away in there somewhere, it just needs someone to discover it and arrange all the components properly. The trouble is the boat industry isn't exactly renowned for being cutting edge in their thinking.
Henry
Edited to say that you left off the S65 from your list and of course some lengths have different models within them, V52, 52 Flybridge etc.
I think that one issue that Princess may have is a consequence of their successful marketing of brand loyalty.
Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the paradigm-owner changes boats every two years.
If that person starts with a 43 and finds that it is worth diddly in the open market as a 2y/o except that it is worth 75% of the price of an all-new 45, chances are they'll trade up and up, right to the point when the music stops.