3' 6" draft around the Solent advice!

[Zagato]

I am on the verge of getting a Crabber24 with a 3'6" long keel but am wondering how practical such a keel will be. The boat in question has no beaching legs and it maybe tricky to retro fit them.

I am hoping to sail and moor at Bembridge, and further afield to Keyhaven and any other places in-between worth a visit. I have never been to any of these harbours and am being a bit wet because I swore I would get a bilge keel next time OK I'm being a lot wet but will a long keel be a real PITA for regular trips away?

What happens with a Crabber24 if I run aground and tip over

 

[Tranona]

Answer to the last question, probably very little. Beaching legs (if you really need them) are not a problem to fit. You can make them yourself of splash out on a set of Yacht Legs.

In reality thousands of boats sail around the Solent with draft way above yours without any problems - learn to read the tides and the nature of the seabed. The only likely problem is if you have a drying mooring. In mud it will sink in, but may not be suitable if the bottom is hard.

I have owned a boat with a very similar underwater shape and draft for over 30 years sailing from Poole and around the Solent. Never had a problem, but I do have a deep water berth.

 

[VicS]

Bembridge you will be restricted in entry /exit times but no problem mooring on the Duver pontoon.

Ryde similar limited in access times and it dries to a hard bottom but you should be able to lie against the wall.

Wooton Creek. Royal Victoria YC would be OK

Medina river Cowes marinas no probs apart from entry exit times for Island Harbour.
Newport dries.

Newtown you'd have to watch where you anchor

Yarmouth no problems

Keyhaven I dont know

Lymington and Beaulieu rivers no probs.

Southampton water I dont know too well but I guess no problems in the main marinas. Places like Eling, Ashlett and " Powerstation Creek" might require some thought
Hamble River no problems

Portsmouth no problems in the marinas

Langstone. Southesea marina Ok ... but who wants to visit Langstone anyway

Chichester,. As you know a shallow and very dangerous entrance.


Most harbours and marinas have their own websites

Much useful info in the Tightwad Sailor's website http://www.troppo.co.uk/tightwad/tightwad.htm

.

 

[PlankWalker]

A Crabber 24 is in ideal boat for the Solent, and 3'-6" would be shallower than most.

Beaching legs can be dangerous when used after grounding inadvertently. Keep a mental note of the height of tide and know where the shallow bits are, Hamilton Bank, Ryde Sand, Bramble Bank etc.

You'll probably touch bottom now and again you'll be lucky if you don't, but its very rare not to get off, if that were to happen you couldn't get a better shape than a Crabber.

Plank

 

[Zagato]

Thanks for the reassuring replies - thanks once AGAIN Vics, really useful link, I want to marry you! Lol

So for quite a few of the spots I want to visit with the kids I will need to anchor out and jump in a tender. Leaving the boat at anchor with no one in it for a few hours is a scary thought, what happens if the wind or tide changes do you guys just keep an eye on it and get back pronto if the boat is pulling in a different direction with the fear of the anchor being pulled out

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

Thanks for the reassuring replies - thanks once AGAIN Vics, really useful link, I want to marry you! Lol

So for quite a few of the spots I want to visit with the kids I will need to anchor out and jump in a tender. Leaving the boat at anchor with no one in it for a few hours is a scary thought, what happens if the wind or tide changes do you guys just keep an eye on it and get back pronto if the boat is pulling in a different direction with the fear of the anchor being pulled out

After 630 posts you should know better than to ask a question about anchoring.

Great advice from Vics. Can I just add that you will fine in most of Keyhaven as well.

We cruised around the Solent in a boat with over 5 foot draft and then got one over 6 foot. We went to most of the places mentioned.

If its calm enough to row the kids ashore and you have a proper anchor, properly set, then a change of tide or wind is highly unlikely to be an issue.

 

[Searush]

Thanks for the reassuring replies - thanks once AGAIN Vics, really useful link, I want to marry you! Lol

So for quite a few of the spots I want to visit with the kids I will need to anchor out and jump in a tender. Leaving the boat at anchor with no one in it for a few hours is a scary thought, what happens if the wind or tide changes do you guys just keep an eye on it and get back pronto if the boat is pulling in a different direction with the fear of the anchor being pulled out

The first time is always a bit like that & I have once had to jump in the dinghy & row like mad after a boat. But that was too short a scope, a sandbank sloping away down wind & short steep waves. So each time the bow lifted, the anchor moved a little into deeper water until she drifted off.

Occasionally I will take the kids & SWMBO ashore then go back aboard myself "just in case". But with experience you will get to know when it is safe & when it may not be. Dig the anchor in, have ample scope (at least 3x max depth if all chain) & just keep an eye on her.

Mud & sand are the best bottoms, be wary of shingle or rock, clay can be very good or very bad depending on if the anchor digs in or slides!

Cornish boats are well designed & would have no trouble lifting off on a rising tide, but it could be an uncomfortable couple of hours at 40 odd degrees off the vertical. It will be almost impossible to to anything but lie in the corner of the downhill berth & read - or have a game of cricket on the beach. SR carries a beach cricket set for just such an eventuality & we are a twin keeler.

 

[pappaecho]

Many of the areas in the Solent have soft mud, so if you anchor, or lie along side a drying pontoon, the boat will lie comfortably on the mud. Never had a problem with my E32 with long keel and 5 ft draught

 

[Seajet]

How about Emsworth Marina ? Lovely spot if you can afford it - still cheaper than other marinas.

 

[VicMallows]

Thornham Marina's (Chichester Hbr) brand new pontoons look very attractive if you would be happy will the restricted tidal access. Boats sit in very soft mud at low water. Probably the most tranquil and pleasant area of the entire harbour.

 

[st599]

Thanks for the reassuring replies - thanks once AGAIN Vics, really useful link, I want to marry you! Lol

So for quite a few of the spots I want to visit with the kids I will need to anchor out and jump in a tender. Leaving the boat at anchor with no one in it for a few hours is a scary thought, what happens if the wind or tide changes do you guys just keep an eye on it and get back pronto if the boat is pulling in a different direction with the fear of the anchor being pulled out

Been to most of those places in a 7'6" draft boat, must be a piece of p*** in such a shallow draft boat.

 

[William_H]

Twin Keel versus long keel.

I reckon that UK sailors are a bit obsessed with twin keel boats. Indeed I have only ever seen one around here. And none in the last 35 years. I understand of course that they are necessary for a drying mooring or if you really need shallow draft.
I have run aground many times with my little boat with what must be near 4.5ft draft. It is shallow enough draft that I can get out and put my shoulder under it and push her off. I don't usually do that though. Don't want to get wet. My boat can be heeled over quite easily with a crew all leaning out, this reduces the draft so much that it can be sailed away. However first step is to know which way you need to go to escape shallows. (usually the way you came in.) Then turn the boat so it is pointing in the right direction. If this puts wind abeam or behind you you are laughing. If it is on the nose you are in trouble of course. I use a spin pole to pole the bow around pushing sideways from as far forward as possible. Being fin keel is easier to rotate on the keel tip.
If wind is on the nose you must either pole the boat forward while heeling or get out and push. Take a line from the boat to yourself in case of the boat sailing away or the water getting deeper suddenly.
I find running aground no problem almost fun. I can often escape within seconds if you are organised.
Yes I have a lifting keel which I never lift in running aground. Just too much trouble and not necessary. It remains bolted down.
So to the OP your choice of keel is good be grateful and don't be afraid of the mud. olewill

Plenty of advice not necessarily good advice from olewill.

 

[Zagato]

I suppose for me it also comes down to the anchoring issue and from what people are saying not being able to leave your boat with the complete confidence it will not float away on a changing tide/wind Tying up to a pontoon three boats out and paying for the privilege isn't my idea of getting away from it all.

Perhaps I should look at the older Yawl, maybe one with bilge plates - I could then just settle on the beach whilst the kids played and also the same for cheaper, peaceful overnight stays Bilge paltes would give more flexibility, I'm not worried about the extra drag!

Think I am realising I need to decide what sort of sailing I want to do, I really like going up the esturies, drying out, or taking the kids up to Dell Quay SC for tea & cake which I don't think we could do so easily.

When the kids are involved it seems mad getting a bigger boat that has a much smaller cockpit which can only seat 4 - what do you do when you tack? Somebody gets a lap full of tiller then you have to squeeze around each other mid tack! The Kids also cannot go below as the engine is to noisy... Makes the Drifter such an ideal boat, they can move around in the cockpit, play in the cabin, and everything is so much more simple and less hassle.

I will however be sailing single handed most of the time and hoping my wife will come out as well on calm days - that will then in a back handed way justify the bigger boat and accomodation. We can spend some really nice long weekends away in a bit of comfort for a change...

 

[Seajet]

Zagato,

bilge plates are useful if drying on sand - ie Bembridge beach, maybe East head - but personally I avoid sand like the plague, dried out at East Head once in tiny waves and the pounding felt & sounded like the end of the world !

The secret if doing this I've since learned is once the boat touches to drive her on with the engine, minimises pounding time.

Conversely bilge plates are no use whatsoever on soft mud, they just slice in and over she goes just as much as without them.

Must say I always fancied the yawl...

Don't get hung up about anchoring, as long as a few simple rules are followed and one doesn't push luck there's nothing to it.

 

[onesea]

The secret if doing this I've since learned is once the boat touches to drive her on with the engine, minimises pounding time.

+1 you can also drop your anchor (or walk your anchor) further offshore. Then hopefully when the tide comes as soon as you start floating you move clear of the shallows to stop that pounding ASAP to.

 

[Zagato]

Interesting thanks, is it the same for drying moorings though, depends on the ground I suppose?

I must admit I would prefer the long keel for sailing, less to go wrong than a lifting keel and it's not in the way down below. I'm even veering towards a Crabber that has bermudan rig, ali masts etc Again less to maintain, no running backstays, a bit more room in heads and cockpit as there is no mizzen taking up space. I think it wall all come down to the particular boat in the end as it is all trade offs somewhere. One Crabber24 in particular has been very well maintained, had all new rigging, shrouds etc, etc. Or just stick with the Drifter or even look at a Shrimper for a change.

Comes down to do we want the extra accommodation I suppose - probably not, the family will really only enjoy day sailing in the estuary I'm all over the place now as you can tell...

I'm not rushing into anything, It's a buyers market, people are really struggling to sell some boats at the moment, same with second hand prestigious cars, they are losing massive chunks of money each month apparently, luckily Defenders always hold their values well in a recession..

 

[Seajet]

Zagato,

if those tiny bilge plates did anything to keep her upright, the ground is way too firm for a permanent mooring !

At my club there's a Hunter Europa 'triple keel' which really has bilge plates, they're MUCH bigger than on that yawl - still smaller & thinner than proper keels - but just dig straight in, doing nothing but may even hold her over and flood her if really unlucky.

Don't even think about drying on sand apart from a temporary measure for one tide with you there...

 

[Zagato]

OK long back to the long keel, twin cylinder quieter engine, more spacious interior of the Crabber24 Thanks

A lot of the 1995 onwards Crabbers had ali masts and bermudan rigs, it's a shame as I really like the wood/gaff rig but it certainly has it's advantages in improved performance, less maintenance and no running backstays to deal with. The one I have my name on has this set up and that's OK now i understand a bit more about it all but i wouldn't have looked at it 3 weeks ago. It's all trade offs as usual!

I see Tom Cuncliffe now has a bermuden rig

Should have got one of these Tom...

Much prettier and do you REALLY need all that space Lol.

 

[Zagato]

Whats the difference between a bermudan and cutter rig

 

[prv]

A lot of the 1995 onwards Crabbers had ali masts and bermudan rigs

Really?!?

Seems unlikely to me, given their niche as "traditional" character boats. The only one I've ever seen (and that in an advert on the Web, not in person) was a conversion, with the original mast and rigging available if a purchaser wanted to convert back. I thought it looked horrible.

If you want metal masts and triangular sails, buy a boat designed that way. It'll almost certainly be cheaper, and probably better, than a mutated Crabber.

Pete