2nd hand buying process advice for a first time cruiser purchase

[Dunadd]

Hello all, I’ve been following the forum for a number of years and finally built up the courage to post!

Up till now all boating has been RIB based but with the arrival of a mini human two years ago the RIB went to pastures new earlier this year.

Have been looking for a suitable replacement for a while, mulling over options and finally narrowed it down to a Prestige 32 or Antarès 1080.
Our budget doesn’t quite stretch to the newer end of the market so looking at circa 2002/03 boats.

Having never made a boat purchase of this size before looking for a bit of clarification/advice.

For the survey, who foots the bill for the boat being lifted from the water, buyer or seller?
The term ‘subject to survey’, if the buyer does not like the survey bearing in mind the age of the boat and the chances of something coming up, what is deemed acceptable without recourse to retract offer?
How long is typical for a buyer to Consider the outcome of the survey?
After the purchase process is complete is the buyer immediately responsible for the storage costs whilst awaiting uplift by hauler.

We are based on the west coast of Scotland so very time consuming viewing boats on the south coast.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[Sneds]

You, as the buyer are responsible to pay for the lift and of course the survey.
Regarding rejecting the boat, you should make it clear and part of the contract that you reserve the right to reject the boat, ie walk away for any reason you see fit as a result of anything your surveyor finds.
Of course you could always do this without paying a deposit, with the owner's permission of course, leaving you free to walk should you choose.
everyone has their own valid opinion on this but if you're not happy for any reason don't pay a bean and find another boat,Meyer are plenty about although seldom when and where you want them!
Good luck and don't let brokers bully you

 

[superheat6k]

Hello all, I’ve been following the forum for a number of years and finally built up the courage to post!

Up till now all boating has been RIB based but with the arrival of a mini human two years ago the RIB went to pastures new earlier this year.

Have been looking for a suitable replacement for a while, mulling over options and finally narrowed it down to a Prestige 32 or Antarès 1080.
Our budget doesn’t quite stretch to the newer end of the market so looking at circa 2002/03 boats.

Having never made a boat purchase of this size before looking for a bit of clarification/advice.

For the survey, who foots the bill for the boat being lifted from the water, buyer or seller?
The term ‘subject to survey’, if the buyer does not like the survey bearing in mind the age of the boat and the chances of something coming up, what is deemed acceptable without recourse to retract offer?
How long is typical for a buyer to Consider the outcome of the survey?
After the purchase process is complete is the buyer immediately responsible for the storage costs whilst awaiting uplift by hauler.

We are based on the west coast of Scotland so very time consuming viewing boats on the south coast.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

1 Costs of survey - all for the buyer to meet including haul out.

2 Terms of withdrawal from survey. Most contract formats such as MCA / RYA will have fairly stringent rules included, so read these, and these will likely require an adjustment to price and to be 'Significant' whatever that means. But you are the buyer to you are perfectly at liberty to couch your offer with any terms you like. You can also strike out or amend any you do not like.

I routinely (last three purchases) include a "I can walk with full refund of deposit if for any reason, and that I do not have to disclose, if I so choose (less any direct costs survey related costs incurred and not otherwise settled by me). You would have to pay a deposit - this shows the appropriate commitment to the contract.

Sellers / Brokers may not like it, and on a popular boat with a queue of bidders will likely reject your offer term. BTW I live close to lots of boatyards and brokerage business, and have yet to see such a queue.

Most contracts will clearly set out how long the time periods are to enact various stages of the process, but again all these can be varied. Never forget you are still the Buyer = Strongest position in the transaction Do not be afraid to dictate your own terms - the strongest term of all is the cash in your pocket.

After purchase Yes all costs of keeping the boat are the new owners - why wouldn't they be ? That said though it is very common to agree a length of tenure on an existing mooring before you move on, e.g. 2 weeks a month etc. This should be written into the contract.

Good luck with your search.

 

[rafiki_]

Just to add to Sneds post, having paid for the lift and survey, if you walk away, you pick up your sunk costs of the lift and survey.

 

[ari]

Never forget you are still the Buyer = Strongest position in the transaction Do not be afraid to dictate your own terms - the strongest term of all is the cash in your pocket.

Not necessarily. The seller only has one boat and so only needs to make one sale.

If he doesn't like the terms of buyer #1 there's always buyer #2.

Or 3 or 4 or 5.

After all, to the buyer this is the best boat on the market, anything else is second best (otherwise why is he buying it, not one of the others?).

To the seller, the money is exactly the same no matter who it comes from.

 

[Bigplumbs]

To the seller, the money is exactly the same no matter who it comes from.

Not always true. I know many people who have not sold things to a person because they did not like them or felt insulted by an offer they made. Like so many things in life it is not always about the money

 

[sprocker]

Not always true. I know many people who have not sold things to a person because they did not like them or felt insulted by an offer they made. Like so many things in life it is not always about the money

I can understand not selling to a potential buyer because of a low/insulting offer, but I would think there are not many (if any) boat owners that, if offered a good price, would refuse to sell because they did not like the buyer?

 

[ari]

Not always true. I know many people who have not sold things to a person because they did not like them or felt insulted by an offer they made. Like so many things in life it is not always about the money

Which sort of agrees with my point. The seller only has to make one sale and he's out. If he doesn't like the offer, or the terms, or as you say, even maybe the person, if he's confident in his boat then unless he's desperate he can just wait and hook another fish.

 

[rlw]

With a small child I would consider a sportcruiser type boat where you can see and have control of the whole boat from the helm.
Coming from a sturdy rib this would also give you the option of some britt boats with good hulls.

An individual choice I know but I am looking at upgrading now with a 9 and 13 year old and being on the flybridge and not being able to see what they are up to worries me.
My kids where with us from a few months old and I found a car chair strapped to the passenger bench worked a treat so mum was free to do the lines on the foredeck and I could entertain my son and if that failed he could scream his head off while docking but could not get in the way.

Great hobby to do with your kids. Oldest now hooked into boating, windsurfing, sailing a pleasure to watch. Now need to convince number 2 son that boats are more fun than horses

Enjoy.

 

[kashurst]

+1 on the sports cruiser style of boat with young children. When ours were small, flybridge stairs etc are a pain. As the children get bigger and more confident you want to be able to see them moving about the boat, going to the loo etc. With a sports cruiser once they go below they can't fall in and you can see them going up and down the steps. Also docking is easier as you can talk to them rather than shout at them from the flybridge = less stress =happy family.

 

[BruceK]

as per rlw. Good advice even if somewhat off topic. It's why I went that line

 

[Portofino]

+1 on the sports cruiser style of boat with young children. When ours were small, flybridge stairs etc are a pain. As the children get bigger and more confident you want to be able to see them moving about the boat, going to the loo etc. With a sports cruiser once they go below they can't fall in and you can see them going up and down the steps. Also docking is easier as you can talk to them rather than shout at them from the flybridge = less stress =happy family.

Our kids have flown the nest , but same principles apply with a dog

 

[Dunadd]

Thank you all for the replies, it can be quite a daunting process, with sub 8m boats it’s straight forward view, test, offer, if accepted of you go.

The flybridge over sportscruiser has been a debate for a good while now.
The sports cruiser is a natural progression and like suggested would be easier with a little person, it’s also crossed my mind
a few times that we are not ‘old enough’ or ‘hair yet grey enough’ to own a flybridge.
We boat year round and a orange ball in the sky in our cruising area is a vary rare occurrence! Therefore a hardtop is a must.
The boat needs to have enough genuine space for us to weekend regularly, so again having a cabin rather than open cockpit is a must and the running costs of another size up would be too high.
A fairline or princess would be great but the reality is the budget just won’t stretch without a much older boat, plus on these sizes I wouldn’t entertain the thought of 15+ year old sterndrives.
Coming from a RIB and the mentality of if the weathers not great it will just be ‘interesting’ we have accepted that by moving to a larger cruiser and boating with the little person the reality is you won’t be going far unless certain of pretty fair weather so whilst one of the British hulls would be great the size, age and space of the alternatives is extremely attractive.

 

[oldgit]

The sports cruiser is a natural progression and like suggested would be easier with a little person, it’s also crossed my mind a few times that we are not ‘old enough’ or ‘hair yet grey enough’ to own a flybridge.
We boat year round and a orange ball in the sky in our cruising area is a vary rare occurrence! ..

The hiatus twixt "sport boat" and a proper boat is right of passage to be undertaken by all boaters and is usually the make or break point for many.
For the failures,the golf course eventually awaits.
Many fail this test and end up in succesion of boats with dark gloomy Hobbit accommodation and a nail breaking array of zips/tent poles and Dzus clips.
The bigger the boat the longer it takes to dismantle the marquee,find somewhere to store it and then erect the entire nightmare on your return.
For the first few trips is fun after that .......
Hence the number of tent boats which never go anywhere,or with half the canvas till left flapping in the wind while under way,the other alternative is not to collapse it in the first place and drive along peering through the letterbox windscreen slot.
If you are fortunate enough to be able to afford and run a 35 or 40 foot sports cruiser two of you might just be able to manage to survive a decent cruise away but any smaller and its days out and weekends only.
As for safety one or two of us can still muster a full compliment of kids and grandkids going along for boating trips despite owning a F******e.

 

[superheat6k]

To elaborate further on boat types, you seem to be familiar with RIBs and have identified their major weak point of being exposed, so great for the balmy days of Summer, when they arrive, but otherwise more for the hardy, rather than the tardy.

So this leaves many newbies with the simple situation that because they do not understand what they want from their boat they will often, indeed invariably own at least 2 or 3 before arriving at a boat that they will keep for at least several years. This learning process can be expensive and frustrating as each wrong boat has then to be sold on, and if the boat is obscure this can be difficult to price and time consuming to find a willing buyer. For this reason alone IMHO it is better to stick with a known make and model until you better understand what you want from your boating.

Cost is clearly an issue for most of us - when we are young we will likely have heftier housing and family expenses relative to our earnings, then as we get older we will also become less agile, and perhaps the need for a uber fast craft will reduce in favour of comfort and operating costs.

I do not know where you perceive your specific needs to be, and indeed do not be surprised if you do not either. I do see you have several broad categories to consider though ...

Sports cruiser - fast simple fun, good for weekending with say 2 adults and 2 kids up to say 30 - 35'. According to boat age somewhere between £30 - 200 k and likely a higher proportionate running cost up to 20% boat value p.a. Most but not all will use outdrives.

Larger sports cruiser > 35' as above but with increased cost and similar running cost proportions, and higher actual depreciation, subject also to Model, age and condition

Flybridge fast cruiser These will also fall into the smaller say to 40' then larger above this. Very suited to some, personally I found the fast(ish) cruiser I had (Turbo 36) and although a lovely boat, did not suit us. SWMBO hated coming alongside due to the height above the water / pontoon, and I got fed up with being bully no mates up on the fly bridge when on passage, which was essential if any chance of seeing pot markers was to be had as soon as the boat was planing. Again running costs will be up to 20% and this will likely exclude depreciation especially on newer boats, although presently there are simply not enough late boats available so depreciation has reduced of late on newer boats.

Trawler style These offer a more sedate style of boating, with the smaller like my own Corvette offering a good IMHO combination of reasonable low planing speed cruising ~15 knots or comfortable and very economic displacement cruising ~8-9 knots. Larger trawlers will have acres of space, large beds and most en suite facilities. Steering from a dry wheel house / cabin with clear vision at all speeds. Most trawlers also offer a flybridge too. Running costs ~10-15% of value.

Fast fishers - Merry Fisher, Antares etc. These offer a combination of high speed and enclosed steering and protection from the weather, and many prefer petrol driven outboards, which have the clear advantage that you are not dangling your valuable propulsion parts perpetually in the water as is the case with outdrives. Again running costs ~10-15% of value

Coupes - Nimbus these offer in my view a cross between the trawlers and fast fishers, and offer decent accommodation and comfort and in the case of Nimbus specifically reasonable residuals. I would expect these also fall into the 10-15% running cost bracket, likely lower for single engine boats.

Good luck in your search.

 

[gordmac]

Would something like a Botnia Targa be a good first step from a rib?