240 watts of solar not managing fridge ?

[noelex]

The older Kyoceras do have blocking diodes fitted as standard on the older panels with the loose cover terminal box but not on the later ones with tails.

I have never seen a Kyocera panel with blocking diodes, including those with junction boxes. They may have produced some panels with blocking diodes at some stage, but I suspect you may be confusing the bypass diodes for blocking diodes. The two different sort of diodes have a different function.

 

[temptress]

First , thanks all , its good to have your input .
1.batteries are sealed lead acid .

2. amps monitoring done by 2x BM1 . 1 per two battery bank.

3.each battery , disconnected ,tested at 1280/90

4.fridge is a Shoreline 100litre , Danfoss BD 35 compressor , 12volt ,2 years old , works fine , makes ice ,etc .the BM1 ,s show start up discharge at 1.6 amps , settling to 0.9 amps running on setting 1/2.

5 I checked the voltage output on the solar panels , the 80watts show20 volts and 3-4amps . best 5.5 amps. the 40watts show 19 volts and 0.40 amps , (these are older )

I have wired , only 2 weeks back , the fridge into the surplus charge terminal on the solara 135 regulator , now this runs the fridge without using the batteries , I gather , so they really should stay charged up ?

the boat happily sits in the sunshine every day , the panels get sun at different times , naturally , but as soon as I switch on a draw the monitors show discharge .

and no , I havent ever checked the system when the alarm goes off at 0330 ! I am
too hacked off to do anything logical at that time of night !

today I did switch on the second fridge at the same time and the amp draw was 1.6
for both fridges running .
the suggestion about the alarm being faulty was interesting and I would be very happy if this was the case , but the regulator that fires off is showing 25-75 % discharge at the same time so it seems to be working ok ?

still confused ...

I think something is not reading or measuring right. 2 fridges at 1.6 amps? Do they get cold?

are you 12v or 24V?

 

[GrahamM376]

I have never seen a Kyocera panel with blocking diodes, including those with junction boxes. They may have produced some panels with blocking diodes at some stage, but I suspect you may be confusing the bypass diodes for blocking diodes. The two different sort of diodes have a different function.

I'll have a look when I get chance. There are definately factory or supplier fitted diodes in the junction boxes of the KC40T-1 panels I have although Kyocera site suggests non are fitted

 

[grafozz]

cold fridge

I think something is not reading or measuring right. 2 fridges at 1.6 amps? Do they get cold?

are you 12v or 24V?

yes they both get cold , but that reading was taken while the solar panels were in circuit , so the consumption figure was subsidised by their output .
I checked with the panels covered up and fridge 1 showed 2.4/6 amps true consumption .
went sailing all day yesterday in full sun shine , only used the engine for 15 minutes , and the BM1 showed a voltage of 11.2 ! so the fridge was turned off .
I am still puzzled as to why the 240watts of solar power cannot support a 100 litre 12 volt fridge ?

 

[AndersG]

The fridge should easily run on 240W solar and you obviously have a problem in your system.
Have you tested to remove the fridge from those extra terminals on the regulator?

Suggest you get an electrician to have a look at your boat, should not take him more than a few minutes to figure out where the problem is.

 

[OldBawley]

Lots of people have a wrong idea of solar power. About half of the yachts I see have spoilers build at the back of the boat. Some even like the way that looks. Unfortunate they than also build a wind generator, a radar antenna en some other stuff on that same construction.
Those gizmo’s´s give shade ! So with the sun from the bow the mast is giving shade, with the sun from the side or behind those other toys create shadow. No charge!
Mooring in a marina or at a town quay, shadow all day from neighbour´s masts and rollergenuas. No charge.
September now, if the panels are not orientable to the sun, maybe half of the watts the manufacturer claims are generated. Days are getting short.
The cheapo Chinese panels are ok with full sun, a small cloud or hazy, the production of watts falls to ¼.
Measuring, best with an battery monitoring system. You will be surprised how little of your 240 watts comes in.
Stiill, there is something wrong with your system.

 

[nortada]

By spoilers do you mean a gantry?

 

[jordanbasset]

Lots of people have a wrong idea of solar power. About half of the yachts I see have spoilers build at the back of the boat. Some even like the way that looks. Unfortunate they than also build a wind generator, a radar antenna en some other stuff on that same construction.
Those gizmo’s´s give shade ! So with the sun from the bow the mast is giving shade, with the sun from the side or behind those other toys create shadow. No charge!
Mooring in a marina or at a town quay, shadow all day from neighbour´s masts and rollergenuas. No charge.
September now, if the panels are not orientable to the sun, maybe half of the watts the manufacturer claims are generated. Days are getting short.
The cheapo Chinese panels are ok with full sun, a small cloud or hazy, the production of watts falls to ¼.
Measuring, best with an battery monitoring system. You will be surprised how little of your 240 watts comes in.
Stiill, there is something wrong with your system.

I have my cheap chinese 200watts of solar panels, mounted horizontally on a spoiler(gantry). Ok I do not have any wind generators or radar etc on it but they are more than capable of keeping my battery bank topped up. 2 days ago we used the slow cooker, 5 amps for 6 hours. Fridge on of course, a couple of hours of t.v. in the night, computer charging for 3 hours etc. Battery bank was still showing 80% in the morning, by 12m/day it was fully charged again, excellent piece of kit.

 

[OldBawley]

Two hundred watts of solar power is more than enough, it is the whole system that has to be sound.
Our boat is a classic, solar panels on a gantry would have ruined the looks of the boat. So I mounted them on the roof of the doghouse. Invisible but for the passing two story high flybridge mobo. The panels can be oriented in two ways, but only around the longitudinal ( Google translate ) axis. The yacht having two masts, that means I have to direct one of the sides of the boat more or less to the sun and turn the main boom to one side.
Full time liveaboard, so especially in winter with short days and a low sun, orientating is a must, otherwise nothing comes in.
No to little wind means a kedge anchor to the stern and keeping the boat side to the sun. More wind, I put a spring on the main anchor chain and sheet the yacht to the sun. Wind over 15 knots, then the yawl sail is sheeted to one side, laying the boat at an angle to the wind.
A lot of work, no problem. I like playing boat and have nothing else to do. It pays, last year we had to run the engine only 3 times for an hour to generate electricity for luxus. No marina, no mains, just sun and the wind generator.( Who stands on top of the yawl mast. ) Even the engine alternator runs idle, a switch in the field winding takes care of that. We do not need the electricity from the engine, so why using horsepower for nothing. ( A good regulator dos the same. )
Fridge, lights, a laptop 18h/day, a tablet 6h/day and the other light stuff.
Come to think of it, I paid my last electricity bill 25 years ago.
Under sail, the wind generator loads enough for all plus the autopilot.
As to Jordan, December behind your anchor is different from summer anchoring. You made me curious, what is a slow cooker?

 

[jordanbasset]

Hi a slow cooker is described here -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slow_cooker
'A slow cooker, also known as a Crock-Pot, or Slo-Cooker, (trademarks that are often used generically in the US-Canada and Australia, or UK, respectively), is a countertop electrical cooking appliance that is used for simmering, which requires maintaining a relatively low temperature compared to other cooking methods (such as baking, boiling, and frying)[1] for many hours, allowing unattended cooking of pot roast, stew, and other suitable dishes.'

We can run ours off a 150 watt invertor, my wife made a delicious chicken casserole 2 days ago, enough for 3 meals for 2 people. Would thoroughly recommend it

 

[Cardo]

Hi a slow cooker is described here -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slow_cooker
'A slow cooker, also known as a Crock-Pot, or Slo-Cooker, (trademarks that are often used generically in the US-Canada and Australia, or UK, respectively), is a countertop electrical cooking appliance that is used for simmering, which requires maintaining a relatively low temperature compared to other cooking methods (such as baking, boiling, and frying)[1] for many hours, allowing unattended cooking of pot roast, stew, and other suitable dishes.'

We can run ours off a 150 watt invertor, my wife made a delicious chicken casserole 2 days ago, enough for 3 meals for 2 people. Would thoroughly recommend it

My O/H received a slow cooker for christmas last year. It's fantastic. She makes all sorts of delicious, very tender meals with it. We're planning to take this on the boat with us when we leave on our extended cruise next year. I'm glad to hear it's not too taxing on the batteries when run via an inverter.

 

[grafozz]

The fridge should easily run on 240W solar and you obviously have a problem in your system.
Have you tested to remove the fridge from those extra terminals on the regulator?

Suggest you get an electrician to have a look at your boat, should not take him more than a few minutes to figure out where the problem is.

yes, I have now removed the regulator to fridge connection and it seems even worse , in full sun all day , now I am turning the fridge off at night !
BM1 shows 11.4 volts on the one bank ( 2x batts )
yes , still something wrong there .

 

[OldBawley]

The slow cooker, that is interesting.
Know this is off topic, but energy management on a yacht is interesting to all.
We use a wood burning stove so do a lot of slow cooking directly on the stove . Wintering in Turkey I learned slow cooking in a traditional stone pot on the wood stove.
However in summer the wood stove is nono, one would melt inside the boat. We use gas to cook in summer and I try to avoid cooking. I am a half time celibatarian with a curious disease, at temperatures exceeding 28 degrees I become allergic to any kind of physical labour. Although known as a Burgundian gourmet and food critic my culinary needs drop steep if I have to cook myself in those med summer temperatures. I sometimes use the hay box technique to avoid the boat from heating up to much ( And saving gas ) What about putting your slow cooker into a hay box?
We have 170 watts of solar power and the small windgen. In summer, at noon, the regulator starts already to waste energy. The excess electricity could be used to slow cook something.
In an other thread I learned that there is now an 12 V immersion heater element for water.
The thing is, I hardly need hot water in summer. A pot of coffee in the morning, that’s it. I even do the dishes with cold water. ( Good that Swimbo dos not read this forum. )
So, a new idea to use the excess summer electricity by cooking stews in a slow cooker / hay box.
FB pie ???
Reading about the chicken casserole made my mouth watering. By the way, slow cooked food is very “In “ at the moment in star restaurants. The new hype.
To hot, I will stick to Calamar sauté. Rick Stein recipe, 2 minutes in a very hot pan, done. 2€/kilo today at the fishing boats.

 

[Chris_Robb]

yes, I have now removed the regulator to fridge connection and it seems even worse , in full sun all day , now I am turning the fridge off at night !
BM1 shows 11.4 volts on the one bank ( 2x batts )
yes , still something wrong there .

I suspect you have been running batteries well below full charge, probably less than 50% and your batteries are now as good as dead. At 11.4 volts that's flat. Never run below 12.3v.

Your fridges have only inches of insulation, when 3 to 4 is ideal, and essential in the med. Further, front opening fridges are highly inefficient. Expect to fridges to run for a lot if the time. The manufacturers figures are a complete con.

Enjoy the light show in the Ionian, hope you are tucked up somewhere safe.

 

[GrahamM376]

I suspect you have been running batteries well below full charge, probably less than 50% and your batteries are now as good as dead. At 11.4 volts that's flat. Never run below 12.3v.

I suspect you're right, the batteries are knackered or, one is and is pulling the others down.

Our BD50F draws 6-7A and with 200W of solar (plus sometimes Aerogen) we can last for at least 2 overcast days on 480AH domestics, without starting the genny. That's with netbook, lights, TV and FM radio use as well.

 

[grafozz]

solara panel U/S

latest on this quest is the discovery (suspected ) that one of the Solara 40w panels has disintegrated .
The water has got in and ruined the panel completely , so it has been disconnected .
Now left with 2x 80w rigids and one 40w Solara flexi , last week after 3 days cruising with 50 % motoring , the morning reading on the battery banks was 11.4v ! with just one led anchor light and the fridge , this is getting scary !
Is it possible that one or more of the solar panels is discharging the batteries overnight ?
help ?

 

[noelex]

latest on this quest is the discovery (suspected ) that one of the Solara 40w panels has disintegrated .
The water has got in and ruined the panel completely , so it has been disconnected .
Now left with 2x 80w rigids and one 40w Solara flexi , last week after 3 days cruising with 50 % motoring , the morning reading on the battery banks was 11.4v ! with just one led anchor light and the fridge , this is getting scary !
Is it possible that one or more of the solar panels is discharging the batteries overnight ?
help ?

The regulator generally stops any discharge, but even without this the self discharge is very low.
It is possible for the panels to develop a fault, but this would normally blow the fuse and is an unlikely cause of your problems.

The most likely fault is dead batteries. Even a short time at 11.4v is likely to kill them. Once dead their capacity is very small so the fridge will pull the voltage down overnight as the batteries cannot store much energy from the solar panels.

Check all the connections and solar panel output.

You need a good battery monitor and/or a clamp on multimeter to diagnose your problems and keep track of things in he future.

 

[jordanbasset]

Is it possible that one or more of the solar panels is discharging the batteries overnight ?
help ?

Easiest way to find out is to disconnect panels when battery is charged and see what happens.
If batteries are okay next morning you know you have a problem with discharge, but I think it is unlikely.
If batteries do go down then when batteries recharged disconnect the batteries from the system. If the batteries are down again to 11.4v then I think it is fair to assume the batteries are knackered, or atleast one of them.

 

[Chris_Robb]

latest on this quest is the discovery (suspected ) that one of the Solara 40w panels has disintegrated .
The water has got in and ruined the panel completely , so it has been disconnected .
Now left with 2x 80w rigids and one 40w Solara flexi , last week after 3 days cruising with 50 % motoring , the morning reading on the battery banks was 11.4v ! with just one led anchor light and the fridge , this is getting scary !
Is it possible that one or more of the solar panels is discharging the batteries overnight ?
help ?

Go to Vliho Yacht club in Vliho Bay and get Ruari Bradley to sort you out once and for all. Call him on 0030 6978889191.

You can trust him to advise you honestly.

Looks like new batteries are required, Also you need to sort out insulation on fridges or you will always be fretting about consumption of amps.

 

[Happydaze]

When I get the feeling that my panels are not keeping up with consumption, I split the battery bank up and wire 1 solar panel to 1 battery and another panel to another battery and shut off all electrics for 20 mins and measure the batteries with a simple volt meter to see what is happening. If both batteries show a slow increase in voltage, then both panels and wiring are ok. if no increase on 1 battery, swap the wires over and try again, this will let you know if the panels work.
If you have a mains charging system, get on a pontoon for a night with power and try and get the batteries up to a working voltage.
In 10 or so years of crusing (summer only on the hook with solar) I have gone through 4 regulators and found loose connections on 1 occasion and have only ran the engine twice for electric power. Main problem with my regulator failures has been that the voltage only comes up to 13.7v instead of 14.8v because of component failure so batteries only get 3/4 full which means we only have half the usable power.
Hope something here helps.