24 hour boat tests. Is this new?

[samwise]

Just received my new copy of YM and they are again touting a "24 hour boat test." Does this mean that all previous "tests" were just a quick run round the block (buoys), concentrating on sail and power performance and little on the "living with " aspect.

When I wrote for car magazines we received road test cars from manufacturers that we retained for at least a week, during which time we tried to get as many staff as possible to drive the cars and report back. The basic " What'll she do Mister" peformance figures were taken at a special test track and were obviously an essential part of the test report, but the aspects of living with the car, comfort, convenience etc were regarded as equally important.

If we could only get a new car for a short time, it was termed a "Road Impressions" reserving proper judgment, because often the car would -- on longer acquaintance -- reveal a number of undesirable qualities.

I don't know how or from where the boat mags get their test boats but I would have thought that the makers would have been keen to see a more thorough test -- but maybe not -- especially if the tests tend to be pretty laudatory to keep the advertisers happy!

 

[flaming]

A lot of boat tests are done on boats borrowed from their owners by the manufacturer.

If a company makes 100 boats of a specific model a year then one press demonstrator would account for 1% of their production, plus the costs associated with mooring etc that don't have their equivalent in the car industry.

Very few, if any, companies make 100 of any given model in a year.

Compare those to the numbers of cars built.

 

[Tranona]

Boat testing has changed over the years. When the market was dominated by UK builders it was relatively easy to get hold of demonstrators as builders saw a test as free advertising. Now most boats are sold in the UK by dealers who do not keep demonstrators. And yes most "tests" are done in one day.

The "24 hour" tests are relatively new and seem to feature Scandinavian boats on their home ground - good trip for the testers! and good cheap promotion for the builders.

 

[samwise]

I'm not suggesting that boat builders lay on press demo boats or anything like that. My query is around the meaning of the word "test" and the fact that 24 hours , in my view, is not long enough to develop a full and proper assessment to the level you might expect from "leading " boat magazines.
Something like "First Impressions" would be more honest.

What if the boat builders offered agents and dealers some kind of subsidy payment to support a longer term loan scheme? That might give the sailing scribes a better opportunity to produce a more in-depth report.

 

[snooks]

We are trying to do 24 hour boat tests wherever possible, but we don't always have the access to the yachts we'd like. Sometimes we have to test a boat with other journalists, sometimes we get it to ourselves, each test is different.

We have always tried to get as much time on board, but unfortunately a lot of boat manufacturers cannot supply a boat for us to test over a 24 hours period, as Flaming rightly says they are owners boats, or predelivery. In some cases manufactures won't allow us to "use" the boat i.e galley, stove, heads, bunks etc.

We now give all the manufacturers the option of a 24 hours boat test, but the only people who have accepted and offered since we launched the "24 hour boat test" are Arcona (430, Jan 09) Hallberg Rassy (372, Apr 09) and Regina (400, Aug 09) notice any common link there??

In fact thinking about it Najad, Sweden Yachts, HR, Arcona, Regina have all offered us one model for an extended test in the last 10 years.

The only non Swedish marques that have are Ovni (435) and the Legend (33)

I like the 24 hour boat test, it's gives me more time to photograph the boats in a number of locations, I can go up the mast and do more scenic/lifestye shots which makes the magazine look better...I also get to go sailing on some very nice boats!!! :shocked:

 

[samwise]

If they won't let you use the heads or the galley, do you bring a flask and sarnies and a Porta Potti?

Thanks for that explanation. In many ways it underlines my point about not being able to make any in-depth assessment of the general facilities on the boat.

Interesting that the Scandinavians are more keen to offer you guys more time. I guess the Bavs, Jeanns and Benes feel that close scrutiny might not produce the verdict they are looking for.

 

[Tranona]

Somewhat cynical view! You will find plenty of "tests" of AWBs, with what are usually valid conclusions favourable or not. Not sure myself that 24 hours rather than a day sail tells you any more, although does give time for more piccys and maybe wider range of conditions. For serious buyers there is plenty of opportunity for test sails or (like we did) chartering the same of similar model before buying.

Very glad that we did as it confirmed (although it was a Bavaria) it was well put together, if not with the same manual care and possibly style as more expensive boats. Nearly 10 years on and no regrets.

What are more valid to my mind are the tests of used boats, particularly the nearly new ones where there is still a chance of buying a similar model new. Not only do you get a better idea of what works or not, but you also get feedback from owners.

 

[fireball]

Well - perhaps not so cynical - I've seen a couple of recent "new boat test" from the Ben/Bav/Jen stables - and there are some less than glowing reports of the finish - which is a bit strange as if I was producing a boat and knew it would be going for test then I'd make sure it was top notch!!

It is a shame, but my recent views of brand new "budget" boats shows that they are cutting corners everywhich way to drop the manufacturing cost - door trims fastened top and bottom, but not in the middle ... MFI furniture (although not the Bav) throughout - giving it a cheap plastic feel ... I was really disappointed with these boats - I'm just glad we bought an older boat which was built much better ... (still a Bav though!)

 

[snooks]

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting that the Scandinavians are more keen to offer you guys more time. I guess the Bavs, Jeanns and Benes feel that close scrutiny might not produce the verdict they are looking for.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe because the Swedish realise they get more pages in the magazine, better photography that can be used again and again in YM - I also have more time to experiment (night photography for example) I'm not rushed to do the stills, video and 360 images - They can see the added value a 24 hours test gives them as well as us. The Swedish manufactures do spend a lot of time on the finer details of their boats, and the 24 hours gives them a chance to show all these details off and see how we find them.

On the 24 hour tests manufacturers get a more personal feedback from us, what we liked, what we didn't like. Comments we've made in the past have been incorporated into subsequent yachts, so they gain out of the test as well.

In a "normal" test i.e. one one that isn't 24 hours, we do go thoroughly through the boat from stem to stern, assessing everything from storage to finish, access to services, filters, and try to do a weeks worth of boating in a day. How easy is it to change the oil? can you navigate on both tacks? how easy would it be to cook? from accessing the cool box, getting to cupboards for other ingredients, sitting on the heads on both tacks, getting into berths at sea, handholds where are they? are they instinctive? light switches? The list goes on and on, and on. So, however long we get to test the yachts we do scrutinise the them /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Chris has done enough miles to know what goes on on board boats, he's a good judge of a boat and if he doesn't like he'll say.

 

[lw395]

To really test a boat, I'd have to sail it in both light and strong winds. The tests in the mags do a reasonable job, but there are a lot of variables, often optional rigs, keels etc which can really alter a boat. How well it sails will often have more to do with the sails and tuning than the boat design.

 

[PIGLETSDREAM]

Picked up my new car, went over it in the same way that I went over the new Najad that I was delivering some months ago, a new HR last year(obviously on another time) and a Sweden yacht in 2008. Accepted the car which did not have a scratch on it and everything worked. Have yet to collect a boat of over £250k without faults, very basic faults, but faults all the same that should have been spotted and dealt with before even offering it for collection. The Swedish yards may have a good reputation, but my experience to date on approximately 1.25 million boat value is very poor. Regina yachts, well thats class and I mean class.

 

[snooks]

[ QUOTE ]
Regina yachts, well thats class and I mean class.

[/ QUOTE ]

Regina's owner can still be found in overalls working on the shop floor making teak coat hangers!!!! They build around 10 yachts a year, so the quality to control is a lot less /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[fireball]

[ QUOTE ]
so the quality to control is a lot less

[/ QUOTE ]
Hmm - judging by the offerings on the stands at the southampton boatshow I can't see there is much quality control going on ... infact do they bother training their staff to build or do they just employ flatpack makers ..> ???

 

[David_Jersey]

[ QUOTE ]
They build around 10 yachts a year, so the quality to control is a lot less /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

or a lot more............

 

[Tranona]

Maybe I wasn't clear. I thought the implication in the previous post was that the AWB builders were not prepared to put their boats to test for fear of negative comment.

As you say the tests often comment adversely on may aspects of both performance and finish - usually with the qualifying "you get what you pay for".

I think builders go through phases and you get periods where they get more things right than wrong. I think Bavarias of the age of yours and mine are like that. That is why I have not changed - even though I could have afforded another new one 4 years ago. The "improvements" did not outwiegh the negatives.

I thought the latests Bavs did have MFI furniture, some of it from reject corner (Guess who used to work for MFI!) Have a look at the "Cocktail cabinets" on the bulkhead of the 43.

 

[samwise]

I have noticed that you guys are not slow to chide if something isn't right about a boat. In the circumstances I think you do a grand job, but I'm sure you would appreciate the time to have a gentle canter through the test procedures instead of a brisk trot. Also glad to hear that the builders listen to your views. It didn't work for cars because of the huge production runs. A 50p modification per car adds up to millions and even if the changes were reckoned worthwhile, they could not be incorporated quickly because production schedules were firmly fixed until the specific model change or upgrade date.

 

[fireball]

I was looking last Sept and the Bav guy did say summint about the MFI stuff, but the one I saw was wood (ply?) rather than chipboard ...

shame if they too have now moved to MFI grade interior ... I had a Jen before this Bav and it was solid wood on that too - it makes such a difference ...

You'd think they'd make the fit a bit better though - with all those machine cut parts ... it's not as though it's tricky!!

 

[BurnitBlue]

There is a special department at Volvo (and probably other car makers) that received brand new, never driven cars, from all the major car makers.

They were literally ripped apart and all the components were hung and displayed on the walls for their designers to peruse and nick good ideas from.

It was difficult to watch (for instance) a top of the line Jaguar, Porsch or Mercedes get attacked with power tools and crowbars. The whole thing was later scrapped under tight control when the room was needed for another butchering job.

Imagine the outcry if a brand new Swan got the chainsaw treatment from a competitor. The difference between boat tests and car tests can be seen right there.

 

[Shorn100]

To answer your question - no it's not new.

As an ex staff boating journalist we always used to test boats over two days - sleeping on the boat raised many interesting faults. I always thought it strange that the manufacturers themselves rarely tried the boats they sold.

I remember testing a motor sailor in Belgium in January. It was so cold - there was six inches of snow on deck in the morning - we put the cooker on for a short time (and yes we were aware of the dangers of carbon monoxide posioning). The heat from the cooker must have relaxed the Velcro pads that held the head lining in place since after about 15 to 20 minutes the panels fell each in turn about our ears.

Quite often we would use owners boats - the owners would come with us, if not we would take a demonstrator.

Sadly, the time contraints put on short-staffed magazines has meant that testing is not as thorough as it should be. There again nostalgia isn't what it used to be either.
Shorn

 

[Tranona]

Yes, the changeover has occurred over the last year. The 43 was the first with the new style - adopted so I was told to indicate a more "contemporary" look - Suppose we should say IKEA style know that MFI has almost disappeared!

All academic now as doubt I will ever be able to afford a new boat!