23-27ft sportsboat that can handle a bit of sea?

[dom_moore]

here goes, i'm new to this forum and about to take the step of buying my first sports boat

i've been looking about on the net to narrow my search for when i visit some boats in real life the next couple of weeks

i live in cornwall and would like a sports boat that can handle a bit of swell and wind to give me more chances to get out. we were looking at ribs...but want a sports boat now

budget is not massive - up to 20k max. my eye keeps getting drawn by 1988 era Sunseeker Monterey 27's - is this a sensible craft to be looking at? how is their ability in the sea?

i'm not sure whether i should be looking at newer boats from cheaper brands, or the sunseeker route...key requirements are solid build, speed and seakeeping

please help us if you can, we're in the early stages yet i know and have a lot more homework to do, but a few pointers may help us narrow the search

 

[epervier]

seekers are renowned for their offshore and build qualities being the design of Don Shead, and I think great value for money in the s/hand market, the Monterey is a great weekender also, but she does weigh about 3 ton still tailorable with a land rover,Or the 24ft Mexico, with single engine layout

but don't go with what I think I'm heavily bias toward the Poole boat maker.

 

[hlb]

Hmm, well Welcome. But 23ft to 27 ft is a hell of a differance. Bigger is better at sea. Sunseekers are not great boats, just maybe posey ones. Not my field really and not to sure that solid build seakeeping and speed go together. Thort it was always a compomise between. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

It'sa compomise, you can go bigger cheaper older.
Or smaller newer. As you said. It's about what you want. Bear in mind that it will take at least three boats to get the one you like, so just buy the first one you see. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[dom_moore]

thanks for the info there guys - dbrown that sounds encouraging re the monterey

we got a hilux not long ago. soon to be fitted with tow bar so luckily i think thats the towing sorted

hlb - any suggestions where else i may look? i think maybe the bigger older route would be better for the waters round here more often than not if bigger is better

many thanks again

 

[hlb]

You cant tow 27ft, to big and heavy. Maybe you can tow 23ft, a bit borderline'ish even with hilux. Maybe you can sneak about just a few miles or less with 27ft and hilux. It's not going, it's stopping. Or maybe police! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Falmouth is a lovely safe harbour with plenty of places to go in nearly any boat. Not an expert in the type of thing your looking for. Others will come along and help.

 

[mikesyam]

Check the towing capacity of your hilux, Im sure its poor for a 4X4 and legally can only tow around 2250kgs which includes the weight of your trailer which is going to be around 500kg, this means your choice of boat including engine cant weigh much above 1500kg which gives you 250kg for fuel and equipment ect. I had a Searay 185 fitted with a 4.3V6 Mercruiser and im sure that weighed in at around 1900kgs including trailer and that wasnt a weekender so check your weights and good luck with your first boat, you will love it no matter what you end up with.

 

[thefatlady]

The relationship between towing vehicle and trailer weights is only a recommendation and has no legal basis unless you passed your driving test after 1/1/1997. Any vehicle can legally tow a trailer up to 3.5 tonnes provided that it has overrun brakes, even if it may not be advisable.

From http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_roads/documents/page/dft_roads_506866.hcsp
[ QUOTE ]
In the case of light trailers, that is less than 3500kg maximum laden weight, there is not any specified relationship in UK law between the weight of the towing vehicle and the weight of the trailer

[/ QUOTE ]

From The NTTA Guide to Safe and Legal Towing
[ QUOTE ]
Driving Licences:
Summary
You must hold a full driving licence to tow anything. Most drivers who passed their test
before 1 January 1997 have licence categories allowing them to drive vehicle and trailer combinations weighing up to 8.25 tonnes.
With effect from 1 January 1997 the second EC Directive on Driving Licences (91/439/EEC) came into effect, affecting new drivers passing their test after that date and HGV drivers who
obtained their licence after 31 December 1991.
The net result is that new drivers will only be allowed to drive and tow the following combinations:
1. Vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes (category B) with a 750kg trailer (4.25 tonnes total MAM).
2. Category B vehicles with larger trailers i.e. > 750kg, provided that the combined MAM does not exceed 3.5 tonnes and the gross MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle. To be able to tow combinations outside this ruling requires the passing of an additional test.
3. New HGV drivers and those who have passed their HGV tests since 1 January 1992 will be restricted to towing trailers up to 750kg until they pass an additional test.

[/ QUOTE ]

However, this (also from The NTTA Guide to Safe and Legal Towing) will give you a problem:
[ QUOTE ]
Maximum Dimensions:
Length (excluding the coupling and drawbar) 7 metres
But: towed by a vehicle over 3500kg GVW 12 metres if at least 4 wheels
Width Maximum 2.3m
But: towed by a vehicle over 3500kg GVW 2.55m
Length of towing vehicle and trailer combined 18 metres
Maximum overhang of load from rear of trailer 3.05 metres

[/ QUOTE ]

 

[ari]

You can't tow it and it's pushing the budget, but Fairline Sunfurys and Princess 266 Rivieras are both terrific sea boats for their size. Good accomodation too.

 

[stephenzoie]

I would be very careful about taking the advice given by the fat lady. The Toyota Hi lux is by virtue of its design classed as a light goods vehicle. The weights shown on it's plate are legally enforcable. The manufacturers plate fitted will show the maximum weight not to be exceeded by it's axles, gross and train weight. You are also restricted to towing a trailer not longer than 7metres (not including the towing frame) and 2.3metres width.

 

[thefatlady]

I didn't give advice. I merely quoted the law as given by a Government website and the NTTA Guide.

Anyone who has other concrete evidence of legally enforceable weights is welcome to correct this.

 

[Planty]

First powerbost was a Searay 225 Weekender, super piece of kit, lived up to it's name........... just. It was possible to weekend in it but had to know guests intimately!! Had the larger Camper Bimini which meant the lads could bunk out in the cockpit, comfortably. Had to get one of those small single gas burner jobbies to heat food etc, but cold water sink on board and chemy loo.

Towed very nicely behind Discovery all the way down to Spain and around abouts. Nice high sided design so ultra safe with children and great handling in everything I threw at it, probably 4-5's on a passage back to Poole wind against was the worst I pushed her into. Very Dry and coped with seas nicely, trimmed the nose down and she ploughed through great. Very useful family / play / skiing boat and seemed quite well put together, would certainly buy another one. Should be able to get nice example with your budget. All the best with your purchase.

Paul

PS. Remember to keep about £1k out of budget for bits like VHF, Plotter (hand held is ok), Life Jackets, Sea Start and most important at least PB level 2 and Dayskipper if poss. P

 

[jhr]

I have Sea Ray 215, basically the same boat as Planty had, but a bit older. I'd echo what he says (well, I would, wouldn't I?), they are an excellent first boat.

If you do a search for a poster called w0tty, you will find some posts with pictures of him taking his 215 out in a bit of a chop. This one for example. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Edit: You should get a reasonable example, five or six years old, for under £20k.

 

[duncan]

whilst I believe that your post was very informative I would have to side with a the interpretation of [ QUOTE ]
Any vehicle can legally tow a trailer up to 3.5 tonnes provided that it has overrun brakes, even if it may not be advisable

[/ QUOTE ] as advice.

However this starts to make it impossible to make any generic response to reasonable questions in less that 20 pages........... /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

there is an oft cited quotation from a senior police officer along the lines of " if we look hard enough at ANY trailer set up it will break a law in some way".

In this case the ogic may well go along the lines of "so you are towing a gross weight in excess of the vehicle manufacturers recomendation, you ar einsured with XYYZ, clause 12.4 (1) (p) cleary states that in so doing the insureace is invalidated - I am arresting you for driving without insurance...................

 

[thefatlady]

We're into semantics here. However, if "even if it may not be advisable" is construed as advice, then I was actually advising against such action.

The other point you make is probably, unfortunately, right.

 

[BrendanS]

directly under the bit you've quoted, the same document says

For M1 category vehicles (motor vehicles used for the carriage of passengers and comprising not more than eight seats in addition to the driver's seat) the maximum permissible trailer weight is quoted by the vehicle manufacturer. Alternatively, the vehicle manufacturer may provide a maximum gross train weight (the laden weight of the trailer plus the laden weight of the towing vehicle). If this is exceeded it is possible that the Courts or Insurance Companies may take the view that this constitutes a danger.

so it gives fair warning that while technically legal, you'll probably get done anyway.

 

[DAKA]

The French go out in the Atlantic swells and afternoon sea breezes in Beneteau Flyers. Look at a Flyer 6.

Accommodation poor compared with a Sealine or Bayliner but if you want sea handling they will out perform a Sunseeker in your conditions.

http://www.boatshop24.co.uk/boats/search...tDirection=desc

 

[dom_moore]

wow thanks again to everyone for all these replies...don't worry the roads will be safe - i won't be burning the AT out on my hilux towing a 27footer around the lanes of cornwall!

the benetaue flyer 6 looks promising - have also done a little search on fairline sunfury - may be able to scrape one in under budget with a few sacrifices elsewhere in life over christmas...

thanks again this has steered me in a better direction. also by virtue of the fact no one has mentioned crownline, by process of elimination the search is tightening

have taken the PB level2, sea survival and day skipper theory. i want to continue my training and progress to the advance level powerboat too

thanks again for help guys

 

[dalex]

Just because you can tow something it doesnt mean you should necessarily

 

[BrendanS]

My V10 does mean that pulling a mere boat is a doddle tho! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[thailand69]

Perhaps a bit too off beat........but a real "go anywhere" boat.

23' Fairey Marine Huntress

At the risk of stating what you already know - at the price, size and age you are talking about you, then you are pretty much buying an engine(s) with a boat attached, i.e. the no. 1 concern should be to buy engines and outdrives that do not require replacement / major work during your ownership!!.....how do you acheive that? f#cked if I know!

Sunseeker Montery 27?, I can see why you like the look of them but late 80's / early 90's 2 X 270.0 Mercruiser 5.7 litre V8, Gas = "You're a braver man than me Gunga Din" /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif..........even before the running costs.(all IMHO off course).

I would be tempted to go for a boat of this age with a single engine (whether petrol or diesel) - might lose on performance, but as least your potential "nightmare" costs are halved. It's not the boats or the engines, at these ages the problem is the previous owners, by now they will probably have passed through the hands of folk whose eyes were bigger than their pockets when it came to maintenance..........

I don't know how this handles the rough stuff, but a single diesel and the hull looks "right" Talisman 25

Ooops, just found out that Sunseeker did a single engined Montery 27 (or at least this one now has a single!) 27 SIngle engine (newish)

As you want something between 23 and 27 I would be tempted to go for something like the Mexico 24 (with a single), and buy a "good" one, rather than stretch for something bigger, and keep the rest of the cash in my pocket - plus if you thinking of trailing a couple of feet will make a big difference.