22-footer, thirty years old. Reduced to £10,000. Bargain.

[FWB]

FWB,

if, going by your avatar, location and callsign, you have a Falmouth Working Boat - I take my hat off to you Sir, one of the best sailing experiences of my life was crewing on I think # 29 ' Iris Elizabeth ' ? ( ? as all records were destroyed in a bitter 1993 divorce ) .

" Pass another pastie and beer, and put another foresail up " - " they ( race Committee ) won't have three jibs up Cap'n " - " Put the bugger up anyway ! "

Yes it's actually a Heard28. The hulls are the same as the GRP working boats and made by Heards. Oyster Season now and Oyster Festival in Falmouth has begun.

 

[Seajet]

Fantastic ! I and I'm sure DanCrane are drooling in envy, I hope to be around your boats someday soon; Hurrah !

 

[Greenheart]

You just need the right clothes

Hmm. I salute your hardiness, FWB. For long dreamy decades I have salivated over photos of Sweden Yachts and Swans and all manner of flush-decked classics, and I still sincerely admire the hard-core who can tolerate the inevitable exposure, out of season...

...indeed, I know that there is very much to enjoy from brief periods in the keen clear air on a short, blue January day...so I'd only buy a boat which offered a choice of helm locations, including outdoors...

...but cold is my enemy. I detest it, it is debilitating and even the finest, maddest-priced yachting clothing, offers to me only a sad second-best option, far behind a heated interior helm.

So, I must have a slightly awkward-looking, high-topped boat; but I didn't reach that conclusion with any regret, because at 50° north, I see the shelter as an enviable boon, rather than a laughable deficiency...and so do all my guests.

I guess motorcyclists regard the chill of low-season riding as all part of the challenge & reward...hmm, I like it in my car, heater on.

But please, never cease winter sailing...yachts are a fine, rare sight then, exactly because the majority were designed to hibernate.

 

[Tranona]

as I mentioned I thought the Konsort based Vulcan was a good idea badly presented ?

Once again showing your ignorance. A Vulcan is nothing to do with a Konsort. Different size, different designer.

"motorsailers" is a very broad category, often discussed at great length. Your sweeping statements about them just shows how little you know about them.

 

[steve yates]

Dan, you could always buy a small cruiser like a kingfisher 20, (where was THAT when I was looking for my first boat! I think I'm in love with the things now) and pay a yard to build a solid doghouse on it.
Very roughly guessing prices here, but Mebbe could be done for under £4K?

Didn't John ridgeway have a doghouse built onto one of his sailboats?

 

[Tranona]

But please, never cease winter sailing...yachts are a fine, rare sight then, exactly because the majority were designed to hibernate.

That is exactly the point. For most people sailing is a summer activity and they have no desire to sail in the winter. a boat such as the one you started this thread with is rare simply because few people are prepared to accept the negative aspects just so that they can go out on the water in unpleasant conditions. Plenty of other pleasurable things to do in the winter!

 

[Greenheart]

For most people sailing is a summer activity...they have no desire to sail in the winter. Plenty of other pleasurable things to do in the winter!

Safer to say that for most people, sailing is an outdoor activity...but only because most yachts cannot be sailed from within their accommodation. It isn’t purely seasonal – we get plenty of rotten weather in high summer too, when anybody equipped with an inside helm would be glad of the option to use it.

Dinghy sailing is a summer activity...that far, I'd agree with you, Mr T. The misfortune of most yacht-owners (as I see it) is how much their yachts resemble dinghies! Great when it's hot, much less pleasant when it's not, and in the UK that's the more often.

Considering you’ve posted over 26,000 times in under nine years on the forum, I doubt you simply stop thinking about sailing in October, and commence six months of “other pleasurable things” until Easter…

…and if your vessel enabled to you lengthen your season – by not requiring you to steer outside in the wretched cold & pelting rain we associate with an 'R' in the month – I believe you’d enjoy many more days on board than you do now. That's all.

 

[bbg]

Good advice, thanks. But this wasn't about making offers, or reluctance to - I was only lamenting the infrequency of finding this style of boat for sale - and concluding that a rare boat which is fun to be aboard in bad weather, must hold its value in the British climate.

You are confusing the asking price with the value of the boat. From what everyone is saying (I admit I don't know that market) the value of that boat is nowhere near the asking price.

I can tell you what the value of that boat is to me - virtually nothing. You would literally have to pay me to own that boat. You won't know that value of that boat until it is sold. And even then, it is the value to that buyer.

 

[Bajansailor]

By Seajet - The Evasion 32 looked to me like it might be sleek enough to get over this, but I have seen rather negative reviews; so what's a sleek, relatively deep draughted - or lift keel - motorsailer under 35' then ?

Perhaps the LM range?
Here is one - http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1994/Lm-LM-33-Vitesse-2893112/United-Kingdom

Or http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1986/Lm-32-2982802/Gosport/United-Kingdom

Re value, this is very controversial - I have come across boats that have a reasonable value on paper, but realistically, given their location and type, have very little value in real life. BBG sums it up very well in his post above.

 

[Otter]

Come to that, while experience and design are obviously not your strong points,

B, I never said accomodation on motorsailers is cramped as a generality

C, Never mentioned anything about sinking.

I have plenty of facts and experience or I wouldn't post on here, Ta.

While it might be awkward with relation to your current boat, I suggest you think about having a decent deep keel design on a motorsailer; as I mentioned I thought the Konsort based Vulcan was a good idea badly presented ?

I really must stop using irony with you Seajet!

I've lost count of the number of boats you've declared awful despite never sailing them - very few people would have that courage - and I hope you continue to do so. Your opinions presented as cast iron categorical facts are a forum institution.

 

[doug748]

Safer to say that for most people, sailing is an outdoor activity...but only because most yachts cannot be sailed from within their accommodation. It isn’t purely seasonal – we get plenty of rotten weather in high summer too, when anybody equipped with an inside helm would be glad of the option to use it......

There are people on this forum that will tell you Catamarans are the only way to go.........or new boats pretending to be racers or clapped out racers pretending to be cruising boats or boats with accommodation like a dog kennel or boats with accommodation so lavish they can only be sailed in flat water or tubby bilge keelers, or wooden boats.

The thing all these radical commentators have in common is the absolute belief that they have found the true path. In their iron logic all else are deluded. They lack the ability to empathise; I am not saying all these people are mad but it is one sign of Sociopathic tendency

As far as I recall you are the only one with giddy enthusiasm that does not actually own the boat in question. Seriously, pitch in and then pontificate like the rest of us.

 

[Otter]

There are people on this forum that will tell you Catamarans are the only way to go.........or new boats pretending to be racers or clapped out racers pretending to be cruising boats or boats with accommodation like a dog kennel or boats with accommodation so lavish they can only be sailed in flat water or tubby bilge keelers, or wooden boats.

The thing all these radical commentators have in common is the absolute belief that they have found the true path. In their iron logic all else are deluded. They lack the ability to empathise; I am not saying all these people are mad but it is one sign of Sociopathic tendency

As far as I recall you are the only one with giddy enthusiasm that does not actually own the boat in question. Seriously, pitch in and then pontificate like the rest of us.

Wise words. Personally I've always known that a trimaran is the best family boat and nothing comes close to it for comfort, internal volume, speed and heavy weather sailing.

 

[Greenheart]

As far as I recall you are the only one with giddy enthusiasm that does not actually own the boat in question. Seriously, pitch in and then pontificate like the rest of us.

Gripping analysis Doug, but I don't quite understand!

Do you mean that by not owning a yacht, my unknowing questions risk pointing out the downsides of other chaps' boats, which tend to be beyond their pride and loyal view to concede?

I don't write here to rile the parish, just for guidance. I'm not years from buying a cabin-boat, and the best point made here, seems to be the need to compromise - a yacht may exhibit beauty, luxury, performance, eminent practicality, but never all of these together.

Treating a cheap big dinghy like a small yacht has taught me what big dinghies do well, without reducing my desire for a cabin-boat. But it has also strongly reminded me that being afloat is what I like most, and that race-bred performance isn't my top priority.

And reading innumerable posts here, I believe a majority of yachtsmen feel that way: easy handling, comfort and the readiness of a reliable engine are worth more to most, than high performance under sail...yet routinely, most don't buy accordingly.

That isn't to disrespect genuine racers and their choice of boats - only an observation that, just as many sedentary men covet cars with sporting pretensions, we also tend to buy sleek yachts which look great, but which are, by their style, of restricted practicality.

Not surprising, since a yacht is a toy, owned to flatter and please, and just as well - I'd die of boredom if everyone drove sensible cars and sailed bilge-keeled wheelhouse tubs...but I'm surprised, that the 'boring-but-practical' category is so slenderly supplied.

 

[Tammany]

I quite like it myself, it's not going to be fast under sail or power but it's designed as a small cruising boat and you can get it into places most yachts, even bilge keelers can't go. It will be good for bobbing around at anchor while fishing too. Plus you have the option of sailing. It's a bit like an old version of the Mcgregor 26 and yes I know most people hate these but it gets people on the water having fun and in the end that's whats it's all about. One thing I can't stand is boat snobbery and unfortunately yachties and yacht clubs are the worse for this. If you like it then it doesn't matter a damn what anyone else thinks in the end.

 

[Tranona]

…and if your vessel enabled to you lengthen your season – by not requiring you to steer outside in the wretched cold & pelting rain we associate with an 'R' in the month – I believe you’d enjoy many more days on board than you do now. That's all.

You misunderstand. I keep my boat in the water all year round. Have done for over 20 years and often enjoyed winter sailing. However, there is little pleasure in going out in "wretched cold and pelting rain" - but great on a sparkling winter day with bright sunshine. Then you can enjoy it even out in the open!

The point I have been trying to make is that although you can make a logical case for owning a boat that you can potentially use for longer periods of the year, that does not seem to appeal to most boat buyers. The compromises (particularly in the smaller sizes) to achieve a wheelhouse are just too much for the typical sailor. I look round my club marina and you can count the number of boats with wheelhouses on your fingers - out of over 400 boats. You will however find almost universal sprayhoods on larger boats and a good smattering of cockpit tents. These provide a much better compromise than a permanent wheelhouse.

It does of course change a bit when you get above 40' in length where you can reasonably have the best of both worlds because you have the space to do it. The Scandinavians are masters at this because their local market values colder weather use more because the fair weather window is even smaller than here. However such boats are out of reach of most sailors here.

As I have said many times, the past is littered with attempts by designers and builders to produce a smaller wheelhouse or pilot house boat but none have made much impression from a sales point of view. The few that do exist seem to hold their prices well, as your original post shows. This reflects the niche market that exists. Limited supply often means higher prices.

 

[acheter]

Exactly why I want one. And the reason I've never understood why they constitute such a small a proportion of the UK yacht market.

 

[blackfish]

I don't understand this reluctance to offer say 50% of the asking price. What's the worst that can happen?

Another whole thread debating offers and reductions.

Everything has a market price. If it sits there for 2 years and doesn't sell it is obviously not worth 10k.

I would be polite. Say unfortunately the max you can offer is £x. And then wait! If they don't get any other offers they may bite if the storage and insurance costs bite.

That was pretty much my ploy with our current boat. It worked.

 

[Greenheart]

Thanks to everybody who has posted here.

As the autumn rain hammers down outside tonight, I'm surer than ever about the wisdom (for me) of finding an interior helm cruiser.

The few that do exist seem to hold their prices well...Limited supply often means higher prices.

Thanks Mr T. That's what I supposed, and all this thread was meant to be about. :encouragement:

 

[NUTMEG]

Dan, just a thought, but you often see the smaller CW's and IP motorsailers on eBay for not a great deal of money, usually one or two on there for £6 or £7 grand, I am sure they could be had by a serious buyer a lot cheaper. Sure they are not prestige examples but something picked up for 3 or 4 thousand and a lot of elbow grease would realise your ambition. As a mate of mine often says, life is not a rehearsal and we're not here for long.

Steve

 

[Greenheart]

Thanks for that Steve, I'll take a look.