2 Stroke outboards in Channel Islands?

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

Have a look at Page 21 of this document - http://www.europeanboatingindustry.eu/boatingdownloadables/EUGUIDE_pdf_version.pdf

The private importer is a concept that did not exist under the previous Directive and that was added to ensure that private
individuals importing a boat, a personal watercraft, an engine or any other product covered by the Directive are granted
the same level of protection and obligation as commercial importers. The private importer is defined as any natural or legal
person established in the European Union who imports in the course of a non-commercial activity a product from a third
country into the EU with the intention of putting it into service for his own use.

A private importer, who imports a product for his own use in European waters, must also ensure the craft, engine or components are compliant with the EU Directive

If that's all of the legislation (and it's probably just a precis) get another person on the boat to 'buy' it. They are the private importer, and won't be doing it for their own use. You buy it from them once home. Doesn't solve the duty problem though.

 

[jac]

If that's all of the legislation (and it's probably just a precis) get another person on the boat to 'buy' it. They are the private importer, and won't be doing it for their own use. You buy it from them once home. Doesn't solve the duty problem though.

Although might you then fall foul of the non commercial bit? I suppose if you make no money on the deal then are you a commercial importer? It seems odd that there would be a loophole - someone who isn't commercial but imports for someone elses use.

 

[GrahamM376]

Although might you then fall foul of the non commercial bit? I suppose if you make no money on the deal then are you a commercial importer? It seems odd that there would be a loophole - someone who isn't commercial but imports for someone elses use.

If you buy to resell, even for no profit, you are an importer and subject to the same rules.

 

[awol]

I'm so looking forward to Brexit. Customs used to ask if I had had any repairs done to my car after x-channel pre-EC trips. Now they'll be examining BenJenBavs for new keels!
I think I'll run up a stock of yellow Q flags - you'll be needing them for practique. Anchor threads will proliferate once you all have to lie off waiting for inspection.

 

[GrahamM376]

I think I'll run up a stock of yellow Q flags - you'll be needing them for practique.

Don't forget to keep your receipt to prove VAT paid before Brexit

 

[prv]

I'm so looking forward to Brexit. Customs used to ask if I had had any repairs done to my car after x-channel pre-EC trips.

I think you'll be alright - our Customs capacity is so much smaller vs the volume of traffic, than it was then, that they're going to have to streamline the process a bit in order to have people waiting only for hours in the queue instead of days...

Pete

 

[Topcat47]

I think I'll run up a stock of yellow Q flags - you'll be needing them for practique. Anchor threads will proliferate once you all have to lie off waiting for inspection.

I still have mine from pre EU. What fun. I really look forward to sitting at anchor, waiting for the exciseman and his mate to turn up and drink my rum.

 

[DJE]

Anything you buy for your boat, essential engine parts for instance should technically be declared. problem with a NEW 2 stroke outboard which doesn't meet the emissions limit (some large ones do) is that it appears to be illegal to import one into the EU for pleasure use so I suspect it could be confiscated if you're unlucky, just like they can with booze or cigs if you exceed your allowance.

If HMRC really want to get shirty is that the limit of their powers? I seem to remember something about confiscation of vehicles or boats used to import goods illegally.

 

[awol]

If HMRC really want to get shirty is that the limit of their powers? I seem to remember something about confiscation of vehicles or boats used to import goods illegally.

Transportation to the colonies? Don't all rush.

 

[Mark-1]

Thread revival, BUT, you can buy new 2 strokes in the UK on EBay. They clearly say commercial use only but I doubt they have a way to check.

Also outboards are simple bits of kit and I found out this weekend main dealers routinely buy Outboards and break the them for parts because the make more money that way and because some parts are scarce. So there seems to be nothing to stop a dealer selling me a new Leg and Gearbox as a part and a new Power head as a part. They might even forget to unbolt the two halves before they post it.

I'm wondering if this legislation is adhered to at all, even by reputable UK dealers, do they check at all?

 

[madabouttheboat]

Thread revival, BUT, you can buy new 2 strokes in the UK on EBay. They clearly say commercial use only but I doubt they have a way to check.

Also outboards are simple bits of kit and I found out this weekend main dealers routinely buy Outboards and break the them for parts because the make more money that way and because some parts are scarce. So there seems to be nothing to stop a dealer selling me a new Leg and Gearbox as a part and a new Power head as a part. They might even forget to unbolt the two halves before they post it.

I'm wondering if this legislation is adhered to at all, even by reputable UK dealers, do they check at all?

I think a reputable dealer will follow the rules. The bigger question to me is: now that we are not in the EU, could we not be like the Channel Islands and sell 2 strokes for recreational use once again.

 

[Mark-1]

I think a reputable dealer will follow the rules.

I probably should have left the word "reputable" out.

 

[Graham376]

there seems to be nothing to stop a dealer selling me a new Leg and Gearbox as a part and a new Power head as a part. They might even forget to unbolt the two halves before they post it.
I'm wondering if this legislation is adhered to at all, even by reputable UK dealers, do they check at all?

Tohatsu will supply a new 9.8 two stroke power head but it costs more than a complete new engine.

In my experience the legislation is adhered to, proof of being a commercial user is required with declaration about use submitted on business letterhead, copies to dealer and importer.

 

[ProMariner]

Just to ask, but why do you want to have polluting 2 stroke? Have you stock of oil to get through?

 

[Boathook]

Just to ask, but why do you want to have polluting 2 stroke? Have you stock of oil to get through?

For me lighter, easier to service and store and the amount of fuel I get through on my dinghy outboard is very little compared with strimmer, hedge cutter, car, boat, etc. I also have quite a few litres of oil to use and at present rate it will take me another 10 years! Be much better to stop people throwing rubbish out of car windows imho.

 

[ithet]

The bigger question to me is: now that we are not in the EU, could we not be like the Channel Islands and sell 2 strokes for recreational use once again.

UK has incorporated the existing EU regulations in law en-masse. It would need Parliament enacting a law reducing emission standards to achive that - can you see that happening? More likely all internal combustions outboards will be banned!

 

[Mark-1]

Just to ask, but why do you want to have polluting 2 stroke? Have you stock of oil to get through?

I'm not posting in this thread because I want to buy a new two stroke, I was merely surprised to find them on sale on EBay.

But in answer to your question, I don't want a 2 stroke. I want a nice clean quiet portable electric OB, but an Electric OB doesn't have the range I need and can't be refuelled easily and quickly. Plus an empty battery weighs the same as a full one. So I can't have one. Failing that I'd like a 4 Stroke OB because they sound much nicer than a buzzy two-stroke and it would allow me to buy new. But they're too heavy and complicated and I don't trust my kids not to lay one down on the wrong side, plus I'd have to do oil changes. Plus when the drive shaft is seized I wouldn't feel comfortable standing it upside down to let plusgas run down the shaft into the splines. So I can't really have one of those either.

So it's not about wanting a 2 stroke it's just the engines I want are either inadequate for my purposes or too heavy and and generally awkward for me.

 

[Mark-1]

UK has incorporated the existing EU regulations in law en-masse. It would need Parliament enacting a law reducing emission standards to achive that - can you see that happening? More likely all internal combustions outboards will be banned!

Agree. Weird that small outboards were ever singled out in this way. Judging by my shed there must be way more chainsaws and strimmers than there are outboards.

 

[ithet]

Agree. Weird that small outboards were ever singled out in this way. Judging by my shed there must be way more chainsaws and strimmers than there are outboards.

They weren't. Emissions regulations came into force and small two strokes were not produced that could meet them. Four strokes and larger two strokes could (and still do). New small two strokes are not specifically banned.

 

[Mark-1]

They weren't. Emissions regulations came into force and small two strokes were not produced that could meet them. Four strokes and larger two strokes could (and still do). New small two strokes are not specifically banned.

My OB is over twice the CC and HP of my chainsaw. The chainsaw is legal to buy new, the OB is not. I can't think of a single two-stroke I use that isn't legal to buy new. Just the OB.

IME two strokes are almost exclusively used in small engines, as engines get bigger Four Strokes start to make way more sense. I can't, off hand, think of any larger two-stroke engines that the average person would use, except for some really cool 70's motorcycles.

So feels to me like non-commercial OBs were singled out and few people use large 2 stroke engines anyway. (Maybe my experience is exceptional in some way.)

Frankly, using the RCD to control engine emissions is inherently 'singling out', I don't see how it can be otherwise.

This is a massive digression, I was intrigued to find Two Strokes available on EBay, I wasn't really looking for a massive emissions and engine configuration debate. Fair winds to all.