2 older boats, 2 surveys, 2 deluded owners who don't believe the value of their boats

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Tender_aft

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It's been 18 months searching now. I finally found a boat I liked and had it surveyed by a very well thought of (on this forum) surveyor. There was room to negotiate and very good reason. The owner refused to negotiate and even broke the contract.

The second boat, same surveyor exactly the same; the owner wouldn't negotiate, but this time claimed damage by the surveyor and rather than negotiate, just threatened to sue me (and still is) for the costs of the damage. (I'm trying to get my deposit back).

Both boats are in southern Europe. The owners are English and Italian.

I've given up for now. Sick of it.

(No names or details for now until it's all fully resolved...just needed to vent my frustration).
 
LittleShip said:
2 deluded owners who don't believe the value of their boats

According to who. ????

Tom.
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A fair question...value according to the aforeunmentioned surveyor (I was prepared to pay somewhere in between the surveyors valuation and the pre-survey agreed price, but neither would even negotiate from the pre-survey figure). Significant defects were discovered in each case.
 
Tender_aft said:
A fair question...value according to the aforeunmentioned surveyor (I was prepared to pay somewhere in between the surveyors valuation and the pre-survey agreed price, but neither would even negotiate from the pre-survey figure). Significant defects were discovered in each case.
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If that's the case and you have rejected the boat in the time frame on the contract then you are entitled your deposit back less anything that's agreed or out of pocket to the broker and owner.
 
Tender_aft said:
I've given up for now. Sick of it.
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While some frustration is understandable, I think you reached a wrong conclusion.
The job of a good surveyor (and if he weren't a good one I don't think he would have a great reputation in this forum) is exactly to avoid you wasting your hard earned in lemons.
It's unfortunate that you had two of them in a row, but TBH the first doubt which would pop to my mind in your boots is....
...am I right in my boats selection, to start with?
Good luck for the next, anyway! :)
 
MapisM said:
While some frustration is understandable, I think you reached a wrong conclusion.
The job of a good surveyor (and if he weren't a good one I don't think he would have a great reputation in this forum) is exactly to avoid you wasting your hard earned in lemons.
It's unfortunate that you had two of them in a row, but TBH the first doubt which would pop to my mind in your boots is....
...am I right in my boats selection, to start with?
Good luck for the next, anyway! :)
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Well no disrespect all round, but we arent hearing all sides of the stories. Your significant defect might be my normal wear and tear for the age of the boat. Or the defect might have been blindingly obvious from the outset and so unreasonable to then ask for a second discount down from the offered price for, essentially, the same defect.
Or, it might be the surveyor has done a great job and saved OP from alot of heartache. 18 months of looking only to find two possibly duff boats sounds...unfortunate...
 
MapisM said:
While some frustration is understandable, I think you reached a wrong conclusion.
The job of a good surveyor (and if he weren't a good one I don't think he would have a great reputation in this forum) is exactly to avoid you wasting your hard earned in lemons.
It's unfortunate that you had two of them in a row, but TBH the first doubt which would pop to my mind in your boots is....
...am I right in my boats selection, to start with?
Good luck for the next, anyway! :)
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Sounds to me he only wants a boat that he can knock a chunk off, rather than the best boat.

And then he wonders why they are riddled with issues.

The mind boggles. What exactly makes your surveyor the absolute word on boat values anyway?
 
Suggest that you post on this forum some details of the boat that you are looking for. Just might be that a forumite might know of / be able to help in finding it.
 
Paul,

GRP or ply 16+m ones?

took me almost two years to even find a boat that had all it's docs in order and all it's taxes paid!

V.
 
Whitelighter said:
Sounds to me he only wants a boat that he can knock a chunk off, rather than the best boat.
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Not quite. I hope I'm fair and realistic. On both boats, I was fully committed at the agreed price. The surveys found a rotten hull, that needed a load of work in the first one. In the second, a complete lack of maintenance, hole in the hull, many deck leaks and a bad engine oil analysis which coupled with the lack of maintenance makes you wonder how long that engine has been left to rot. I am at the bottom end of the market and taking on some work quite happily, but these points were beyond what could be seen.

As I said, I was willing to pay between the survey value and the originally agreed price. Take into account the value of the boat once it's fixed and you soon know whether it is worth it. The second owner claimed €200k once it was fixed up and 10 days later is only claiming it is 100k.

My frustration doesn't lie in the boats, the price, the disagreement or their defects, it is one broken contract and the other not discussing price and defects, but just constantly threatening to sue me. To paraphrase, it was kind of buy it or I'll sue you rather than no I want the full price.

The surveyor has certainly saved me buying a lemon (the second boat knowing what I wanted he found).

The boat I am looking for is in the 14-20 metre range (size not important, it just has to be the right boat) not as much work needed as Vas's so can be used, but I can take 5 years and double the cost of purchase to make it how I want it. I'd rather do this than pay double and still have to do work to make it how I want it. I'm very interested in DDs although a good boat that has some other renowned engines would be fine. It's my first bigger boat and I am keeping my costs down like I did for my first car when I was 17. It's the one to learn on. Expecting to replace electrics, perhaps rebuild the engines and hull/deck work (otherwise how do I learn). I know many of you think very differently to this. I have come to this conclusion after several years of research looking at many boats and lots of advice on here (thanks for that BTW).

You lot (Vas, Mapism, JFM et al) talked me into wood during that thread at the end of last year :)..I was a GRP only person before that. Triple planked Mahogany would be better if it's wood.
 
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Tender_aft said:
............ I'm very interested in DDs although a good boat that has some other renowned engines would be fine. ............
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If you are looking at DD's, please make preference to the 71 and 92 series... they share major parts (thus more available and cheaper), with main difference being 92 series having wet liners. The 71 series is as a result easier to re-build (dry liners) and thus less areas where things can go wrong (92 series have a seal at the bottom of the wet liners). There is a 53 series, but this one does not share many parts with the two bigger siblings. The series numbers indicate Cu In per cylinder and were made in a mixture of in-line engines and V formation..... as an example a V8 71 series have two cyl tops from a in-line 4 71 .... injectors, valves, etc., are also interchangeable...
 
You lot (Vas, Mapism, JFM et al) talked me into wood during that thread at the end of last year ..I was a GRP only person before that. Triple planked Mahogany would be better if it's wood.
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I've built a plywood boat, no problems repairing it as Vas will testify.

...just wondering how do you repair a wooden mahogany planked hull?
Where do you get long planks of mahogany, there's a trade embargo and it's illegal to import to from rain forest.
How much would it cost to strip a triple diagonally planked hull and rebuild, hardwoods seem to cost a fortune.

....surely wooden planked hulls are just classified as 'classics', playthings of the rich, like the Cutty Sark etc....:confused:
 
Not having the benefit of seeing the contract, I would assume it's pretty much standard, you agree a price subject to survey, if defects are found that makes the boat un-seaworthy you have the right to cancel the contract & refund of deposit or agree with the seller, either an agreed reduction in price or agreed rectification of faults. If there is a reputable broker involved, then they hold the deposit & refund if necessary. However if the surveyor simply reports minor faults not affecting seaworthiness, but would not normally be observed by a buyer, it would be normal for agreement of these being rectified or monetary compensation.

From what you say, 'hole in the hull', I would you suggest you don't waste money on surveyors before you do your own inspection! By the way it's very difficult for a seller to sue a prospective buyer, all the 'bricks' are stacked in the buyers favour, a decent lawyer would advise a seller they would be wasting their time & money.

My experience is a surveyor is just that, A SURVEYOR!, generally they have only a slight knowledge of the market, remember the price of anything is what is agreed between a willing buyer & seller… not some 3rd party individual.
 
PCUK said:
But not everyone can afford that luxury!
I've never known a surveyor who had any idea of boat values, but in this case the problems seem very serious.
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I know an awful lot of surveyors who are on the whole very good, but I don't know of any who can value a boat well.
Most will take the specification and use that as a guide.
I've known of several valuation surveys on bank repos where the chosen (expert) surveyor has simply come in and ask us to give him a value.
 
I'm guessing the surveyor didn't value the boat, just an estimate of the cost involved in repairing the faults. Then subtract one from the other to give an offer value.
 
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