2 headsails on one furler?

[davethedog]

Looking at improving the downwind performance of our boat and wonder what people's opinions are of us buying an extra headsail (same as current one) and having both on the same furler (we don't have an inner forestay) as needed for downwind sailing?

Cheers

 

[Stemar]

Your best option would be to get a foil with two slots, so you can use one sail most of the time, but add the second when running. It'd be a right faff trying to get both sails in a single slot.

I've never done it, but I like the idea of the twistle or twizzle rig: The Twizzle Rig or Twistle Rig for Downwind Ocean Sailing

 

[Poignard]

Something like a Twistle rig but with the two sails not sewn together?

 

[MAURICE]

Its a very simple set up which is used often in the trade winds depends where you sail and if you go downwind a lot? You can roll both sails up to reef but you will need two sets of sheets

 

[Daydream believer]

With 2 slots in the foil ( like i have on my Facnor ) you still have to lower the first sail & attach both to the top roller. Then hoist both sails together( one in each slot). That can be very difficult, especially at sea with 2 headsails on deck. (I am not sure that one can actually rig 2 foil feeders to help feed the luff either.!!) The 2 sails would have to lay side by side as someone operate the halyard. The sail on the underside can be a real pain to feed into the slot because it is hidden by the other.
Any difference in luff length being taken up on the shorter one with a short lashing. When dropping , they have to be dropped together & collected on the foredeck.
It is easier if one does not intend to furl. Then one can hoist seperately using 2 halyards. Two sails in the foil tend to jam it up a bit. One sail tends to push the centre over a bit but that does not happen with 2 sails. If they are damp & one wants to hoist or drop one sail they can stick together like glue, so it means letting them flog a bit to separate them. I have never tried doing it whilst running down wind so that may work. However, the crew dropping the sail might have a job to grip it if between 2 sails.

 

[Star-Lord]

Twin headsails on same fuller is my dream set up for downwind. They can still be used on one tack I believe?

 

[lw395]

With 2 slots in the foil ( like i have on my Facnor ) you still have to lower the first sail & attach both to the top roller. Then hoist both sails together( one in each slot). That can be very difficult, especially at sea with 2 headsails on deck. (I am not sure that one can actually rig 2 foil feeders to help feed the luff either.!!) The 2 sails would have to lay side by side as someone operate the halyard. The sail on the underside can be a real pain to feed into the slot because it is hidden by the other.
Any difference in luff length being taken up on the shorter one with a short lashing. When dropping , they have to be dropped together & collected on the foredeck.
It is easier if one does not intend to furl. Then one can hoist seperately using 2 halyards. Two sails in the foil tend to jam it up a bit. One sail tends to push the centre over a bit but that does not happen with 2 sails. If they are damp & one wants to hoist or drop one sail they can stick together like glue, so it means letting them flog a bit to separate them. I have never tried doing it whilst running down wind so that may work. However, the crew dropping the sail might have a job to grip it if between 2 sails.

Simpler way is to attach a block to the head of the first jib up, with a halyard to hoist the second one. This second halyard gets tied off at the tack and rolled up when furling. I think the halyard worked like this in old Rotostay furlers?
For down wind, the secoond halyard does not need to be stout or carry much tension.

 

[LadyInBed]

If you haven't got a twin bolt rope foil or an inner forestay, your cheapest and probably easiest solution would be a 2nd hand cruising chute.
You will still have to set up twin whisker poles.

 

[Ric]

Twin headsails on same fuller is my dream set up for downwind. They can still be used on one tack I believe?

Even if you succeed in hoisting them both (see other posts) I expect it will make the boat roll and yaw horribly as the wind spills out of one side then the other of the envelope. Rather like early parachutes - horribly unstable until somebody realised that you needed a hole in the top to make it come down slowly and stably.

Best downwind rig on a cruising boat is poled out foresails flown from separate stays so that the air can spill through the middle. My boat is very stable going dead downwind when set up like this.

 

[STILL AFLOAT]

Twin headsails on same fuller is my dream set up for downwind. They can still be used on one tack I believe?

I guess you mean " Same Furler " Yes it sounds Utopian.....however, the chafe, on the insides of both sails, makes them rather useless, in very short time. I have heard the same story, in numerous places from Illes de Salut, to Trinidad , Bonaire & beyond.
Best 2 options = 1 roller furled & a loose cruising chute.
Or 2 roller furling headsails, Some mount them , Side By Side, some mount them One Behind The Other.
Up to you to read the reviews & choose, but the 2 on one, is a no no, especially with both sails on one side !
Whatever you choose, please let us know, how you got on ! As the Lady said, you still need twin poles .
Good Luck

 

[RJJ]

Or you can just fly one of the sails loose-luffed, which I have done loads. You can't then reef them both at once, but you may be able to rig it (although I never have) so you can still furl one of them with the loose one still flying.

 

[STILL AFLOAT]

Yes, I believe, that is what most of us, call a Headsail & Cruising Chute . works best, with 2 different poles.

 

[Poignard]

When I did an east to west Atlantic crossing we had one headsail poled out on a spinnaker pole and the other sheeted to the end of the boom

 

[davethedog]

Thanks all and have a cruising chute and also our foresail foiler has 2 slots. Just looking at options for better and more stable down wind sailing rather than the cruising chute.

Curent thoughts are buying another headsail and another whisker pole as this will also give us redundancy regarding headsail.

 

[STILL AFLOAT]

When I did an east to west Atlantic crossing we had one headsail poled out on a spinnaker pole and the other sheeted to the end of the boom

Yes, that works brilliantly, as long as the boom is lashed to a shroud, and the sheet is put through a rolling block, at the end.
Done that, on a couple of my Atlantic Crossings, worked perfectly !
The rolling block, allows you to concentrate , on the sail, while leaving the boom, in place, not bothering anybody, even if you have to drop the sail !
However, not all boat rigs, have a long boom, thats why I mentioned the 2 pole option.
Take Care, Out There !

 

[differentroads]

I have this set up on my 10m cruiser - twin matched Yankees of 28m2 each (one is my old Genoa cut down.) In 3,000nm sailing in the last couple of years I've only used it once for a serious passage; a 48 hour downwind run off the the Portugese coast. Worked brilliantly, enabling me to reef down to cope with 20kn+ winds for a while. Offbeat handled well which given my crew were absolute novices and my autopilot is pretty weak, was especially helpful.

Its a right faff to deploy though, so I only use this rig for passagemaking downwind, not everyday running before the wind. I expect that it will come into its own if ever manage to get out of the Med and into the Atlantic again ?

 

[STILL AFLOAT]

Dave..
its the sailmakers who make all this stuff up ! If they can get you to put 2 sails, on the same foil, then use both, on one side, now &again ?
Think how many times your boat rolls, suges, etc.. All adding chafe to your headsails, as you do long trips.
It sounds like a good idea... until you have to buy 2 new sails due to inner chafe, Sailmakers laughing.. all the way.. to the bank !

 

[differentroads]

Dave..
its the sailmakers who make all this stuff up ! If they can get you to put 2 sails, on the same foil, then use both, on one side, now &again ?
Think how many times your boat rolls, suges, etc.. All adding chafe to your headsails, as you do long trips.
It sounds like a good idea... until you have to buy 2 new sails due to inner chafe, Sailmakers laughing.. all the way.. to the bank !

Agreed (in part, anyway). Both sails on one tack is OK only for a short while. On the passage I did with twin headsails I ended it on a 2 hour beam reach in 20kn+ to get under the shelter of cliffs to sort out the sails in calm water before motoring into Lisbon. The sails behaved very well laying on top of each other but the wear on the stitching would have been untenable over a longer time.
But thats not the point of twin headsails. Having a fully reefable 60m2 headsail pulling me solidly, reliably, undramatically dead downwind when shorthanded or novice crew for hour after hour, day after day, works for me. I just don't seem to get those opportunities in the Med!

 

[Kelpie]

Our boat came with a twin groove furler and three genoas. I am hoping to use two of them as a downwind rig when we set off long distance cruising next year.
The rolling/oscillating comments worry me a bit. How much of a gap do you need between the two sails to reduce this? The hole in the top of a parachute is pretty small... so could a small half-circle be cut out of each luff (leaving the bolt rope intact obviously). I would be unlikely to use these two old genoas for serious upwind work so no problem modifying them.
Maybe it would be easier to use hanked sails with slugs to fit the furler... but I already own the genoas...

 

[jdc]

As several have said it's a faff. LW395 is correct that you rig a halyard from the primary jib / yankee / genoa for the second jib. That way it slides up the second groove easily enough. It's also possible to lower the second foresail and so fold it away neatly while continuing on a run or broad reach without lowering the primary yankee.

We've used this arrangement for trade-wind sailing, but tbh, I'm not at all sure it's worth it. Chafe is hard to avoid as all sail controls are led back in strange new ways: there are loads of sheets, guys, up-hauls ad down-hauls to get right and there is only one way to do it. When you need to gybe or get it all in, invariably in pitchy dark in a rising gale, it's a right pita, I think a spinnaker is actually less hassle!