1kg fire extinguishers ABC powder from Lidl

[peterb]

Re: How many fire extinguishers

In the event of a fire:

1 Warn the rest of the crew

2 Get to the exit side of the fire (i.e. to a place where you don't have to pass the fire to get out)

3 Only then fight the fire, which really means that extinguishers should be sited near the exits.

Make sure everyone knows how to use the extinguishers. Fighting a fire on a dark night is not the best time to find out!
It's not a bad idea to get extinguishers which all work in the same way.

We once had an experimental project to discover the best method of initiating an extinguisher. It turned out to be operating a pistol grip with a trigger. I'm not sure whether it's a reflection on our civilisation that everyone knows how to operate a gun, or on the old gunmakers who instinctively adopted the best method!

Best bit of the study came when one person (gender and hair colour unspecified) was asked to use an extinguisher which operated when a button on top was banged on the ground. The safety pin was pulled out, but the bit about banging on the ground got missed out. The next instruction was to direct the jet at the fire; since there was no jet, the whole extinguisher was thrown at the fire. It missed, but landed on the operating knob, and went off. Scuttled round the floor like an out-of-control firework until it landed against the ankle of the man in charge of the experiment, from whence it discharged its dry powder straight up his trouser leg. Best bit of black comedy I've seen for ages.

 

[MoodySabre]

Re: How many fire extinguishers

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif the whole thread was worth that bit /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[chrishelen]

Re: How many fire extinguishers

I bought 4 last year from lidle, £4.99 each,the surveyer said they should be installed lenghways so the rocking of the boat keeps the powder moving.Also bought some other great gear from there,ropes stainless stuff ect,hope they have another sale in the spring.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: How many fire extinguishers

Yes, I concur with that but a fire is the same on both sides of the Atlantic, as are the basic portables. I think that the issue with foam is its deemed unsuitability for electrical fires. Actually, high expansion AFFF portables do not conduct back mains voltages to an appreciable degree and in any case all mains equipment should be protected by an ELCB/RCCB earth leakage breaker. If you then compare the performance of foam vs powder I think you will find that on any meaningful test foam is head and shoulders better than powder. Powder is not very good, really, and can 'cake' leaving you with something good only for throwing at the fire /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[leadersail]

The 1 KG ext is only rated at 5A which is odd because more expensive 1 KG dry powder are rated at 8A ( being the specified requirement of the BSS cert.)

Does anyone know why 1KG dry powder is less effective in a Lidl extinguisher than in others ?

I bought a 2 KG dry powder from Lidl last year for £10 so it might be worth waiting to see if 2 KG come back

 

[Anonymous]

Re: How many fire extinguishers

[ QUOTE ]
so what,s this halon replacement about ? i have one yet to be fitted in the engine bay. are they any good? i hope so.

[/ QUOTE ]I have no professional experience as it came in after I left the fire industry. The agent is HFC 227ea which is claimed to be a replacement for Halon 1301. The required concentration is about the same as 1301 and they claim it to be harmless to people. Based on that, it should be an excellent choice for an engine bay extinguisher. Normally you would arrange it as an automatic system with frangible bulb(s) or continuous tubing that melts in the case of fire or have a hole in the engine room door into which you stick a portable.

http://www.mfs-fire-extinguishers.co.uk/halon.htm but there are probably others

 

[CelebrityScandel]

Re: How many fire extinguishers

In referring to flammable gas fires such as LPGs -
[ QUOTE ]
Yes, I concur with that but a fire is the same on both sides of the Atlantic, as are the basic portables...

...Powder is not very good, really, and can 'cake' leaving you with something good only for throwing at the fire

[/ QUOTE ]
You do not use foam for flammable gas fires and as I indicated the AB classification (European classification) on foam fire extinguishers confirms that, flammable gases being Class C - dry powder is the effective medium.

Foam is fine on pooled flammable liquids because it is the vapour coming off them that is burning and the action of the foam is, in the main, to suppress the formation of that vapour by blanketing the surface of the liquid. So no vapour to burn.

For a flammable gas fire that mechanism does not work as there is no pool of liquid to blanket so dry powder is used (talking portable extinguishers). The dry powder forms a reactive suspension of particles in the burning flammable gas which inhibits the combustion chemical processes.

Again, the best method is to isolate the source of the gas but that is not always possible and it may be that the source of ignition also remains.

I have had a quick check on the internet and there is plenty of professional advice against using foam against flammable gas fires such as LPG ones. Just one such advice, referring to propane, is at www.energas.co.uk/downloads/018.pdf.

I suspect that you will remain unconvinced /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif but perhaps others will take the time to do some independant checking for themselves before making up their own minds. In the end, the recommendation to fit portable dry powder extinguishers in general situations where all of Class A, B and C fires may need to be fought (such as on boats, in homes, trucks, etc, etc) will be found to be universal.

 

[CelebrityScandel]

Re: How many fire extinguishers

[ QUOTE ]
so what,s this halon replacement about ? i have one yet to be fitted in the engine bay. are they any good? i hope so.

[/ QUOTE ]
We use a FM-200 based automatic system which is Dupont's suppressant. It is used in computer rooms and similar ashore too. If you google FM-200 you will find a lot about what is in it, how it works and its safety.

I'm told it works fine and doesn't harm you either - but we have not had any live experience to prove that. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Anonymous]

Re: How many fire extinguishers

[ QUOTE ]
I suspect that you will remain unconvinced /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif but perhaps others will take the time to do some independant checking for themselves before making up their own minds. In the end, the recommendation to fit portable dry powder extinguishers in general situations where all of Class A, B and C fires may need to be fought (such as on boats, in homes, trucks, etc, etc) will be found to be universal.

[/ QUOTE ]No and, it's hardly surprising that I will remain unconvinced since foam is recommended in the USA, I have used it myself and have seen first hand how effective it is, and have been advised by other (UK) experts (Chubb and Thorn) that foam is better for yachts regardless of the classifications. If you read back what you have written, it is all based on the letter of European classifications; you have offered no evidence or opinion as to the efficacy of the extinguishant - which, I submit, is what it is all about!

Leaving aside the LPG issue, foam is vastly superior in knockdown - surely you don't dispute this?

With regard to the LPG, LPG on yachts is a very special case; gas is stored in special storage areas with drainage. As others have said already, the LPG risk on a yacht is explosion, not fire.

 

[CelebrityScandel]

Re: How many fire extinguishers

[ QUOTE ]
you have offered no evidence or opinion as to the efficacy of the extinguishant - which, I submit, is what it is all about!

[/ QUOTE ]
You are definitely correct in that what I said was not opinion /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif but otherwise you are in error as I certainly did give evidence.

Knowing that you would not believe anyone but yourself and certainly not me; I also not being in a mood to waste time in a teenager's type argument on the matter with you, I gave one reference to the experts' view, pointed that there were plenty more similar references to be found and how to find them.

I am sure that whatever the evidence you will have the last word, so the decks are cleared for you to have it now; adieu from me . /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Anonymous]

Re: How many fire extinguishers

It's fairly typical of you to resort to insults; personally I am more interested in the issue.

I would suggest to those who do want the best extinguisher and who feel unable to judge which to go for, from this thread, to do further research but not limit themselves to the European classification system when determining efficacy. Efficacy is what it's all about -

How quickly does the extinguisher put the fire out? (foam is faster than powder)
How much extinguishant is needed i.e. will a small extinguisher actually work?
Does the extinguishant COOL the seat of the fire? (foam does, powder does not)
Does the extinguishant help prevent any flammable liquid from wicking up fabric?(foam does, powder does not)
Can the extinguishant cake solid in the extinguisher? (powder can, foam can't)
Could you refill your own extinguisher on a long passage? (easy with foam with very simple, minimal parts, not practicable with powder)

If the reason why you are being persuaded not to buy foam is because of its use with LPG remember that the USA does not agree and in any case yachts are a special case and the situation is unlikely to apply.