1GM10 starting problem

[RichardGriffiths]

Can anyone advise on a problem my 1GM10 has developed?

On Friday pressing the started just resulted in a single mechanical 'click' sound. After 4 or 5 attempts the engine would fire. By yesterday the problem had evolved - not even the clicking sound! Absolutely nothing.

I've dug up the old posts on the 2GM20 from 2004 in which a sticking solenoid was suggested, but that only addressed the 'click', rather than the total absence of any life at all! Is this just a worse case of the same thing, or a differeent problem? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[mortehoe]

Starter overhaul rqd. The solenoid contacts are buggered. Find a 'Starter Motor' overhauler on/in Yellow Pages. Cost inc VAT < £40.00.

 

[Evadne]

Or crud in one of the high current joints between the battery and the starter motor itself. Especially the battery terminals themselves, dissasemble, clean, reassemble and grease with vaseline or waxoyl. You can also monitor the voltage at the battery and elsewhere downstream to see if it sags dramatically when the key is turned. If it drops at the starter but not at the battery then there'll be a high resistance joint or broken cable somewhere in between.

 

[Topcat47]

I've the same intermittent fault on mine. The Solonoid needs some TLC. I don't know if it's necessary to do the whole Starter motor as it's one of my to-do-next-winter tasks.

 

[Kylora]

[ QUOTE ]
On Friday pressing the started just resulted in a single mechanical 'click' sound. After 4 or 5 attempts the engine would fire. By yesterday the problem had evolved - not even the clicking sound! Absolutely nothing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Someone in my marina had a very similar problem this week. After having the starter/ starter solenoid checked, he found that the fault was in the push button on the control panel. Faulty internal contracts weren't allowing enough volts/current through to drive the solenoid properly.

Ash

 

[DaveS]

From bitter experience, I would suggest making no assumptions until you've poked around with a voltmeter to localise the fault. It could be something as simple as a loose connection. Include the -ve return path in your tests.

Failure to carry out these simple checks is why I am the not-so-proud owner of a spare shiny, unused starter motor + solenoid...

 

[wotayottie]

[ QUOTE ]
From bitter experience, I would suggest making no assumptions until you've poked around with a voltmeter to localise the fault. It could be something as simple as a loose connection. Include the -ve return path in your tests.

Failure to carry out these simple checks is why I am the not-so-proud owner of a spare shiny, unused starter motor + solenoid...

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely bang on. The click noise is the solenoid working so that suggests it may be OK. Check the circuit starting with the battery - much the most common reason for an engine refusing to turn over. If the battery is good then check the path of the wires from the battery to the starter. If they are OK and so is the battery, then bypass the solenoid with a screwdriver and see if the engine turns over - do so with the decompression lever open just in case you have water in the cylinder. The do it with the decompression lever closed.

If all these work then you have verified the battery, the starter and the main power feed so you can start to check the starter button and its wiring.

 

[KenMcCulloch]

[ QUOTE ]
Can anyone advise on a problem my 1GM10 has developed?



[/ QUOTE ]
Only to say you are not the only one. Mine is now waiting for a proper engineer to look at it. I did all the tests I could think of/had been suggested to me and eventually found that without the key turned or the button pushed I had 11.7 or so volts between the solenoid wire and -ve/earth. (I only discovered this by disconnecting the solenoid wire and connecting a voltmeter prior to testing to see what sort of voltage was present when I try to start.) So in my case I have a short circuit somewhere, that I can't find, permanently leaking current into the solenoid wire, just not enough to activate the thing. Ho hum, it's a hobby after all....

Perhaps we should have a '1GM10 Support Group'. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

There's a guy on ebay selling replacement starters for £80 which makes it almost worth having one as a spare....

 

[misterg]

Get a cheap volt meter and attack it logically:

Just thinking through what I would check.....

1) Voltage on actual battery terminal posts (not connectors) when 'cranking' & not

2) Voltage between -ve battery post (not connector) & engine block when cranking

3) Voltage between engine block & battery connection on solenoid when cranking

4) If accessible, voltage between engine block & starter connection on solenoid when cranking

5) Voltage between engine block & key connection on solenoid when cranking

In addition, note whether the starter / leads are getting hot when cranking, and whether engine can be turned over by hand.

I think that armed with this information, we should be able to narrow the problem down to battery, connections, solenoid, starter or engine.

To the poster who's seeing 12v on the solenoid wire without turning the key: I assume you've disconnected the wire, and are checking the voltage with a digital meter - yes? If so, I think it's a red herring (unless the starter is engaging constantly) - the digital meters are so sensitive (high input impedance) that a sweaty fingerprint will pass enough current to register as a voltage on the meter - I suspect the voltage you're seeing is just as a result of a small leakage current due to 'automotive' electrics in a damp, salt-laden environment.

0.02p

Andy

 

[alan]

A friend of mine had a similar problem and after a lot of work with a voltmeter and checking connections and replacing the starter button e.t.c. e.t.c ............... we eventually discovered it was a mechanical problem with a "rod" connection which is activated by the relay and pushes something in the starter motor to engage the it with the flywheel. After dismantling the starter motor and taking it to an auto electricain he had it sorted out in short time.
So, although your problem may well be electrical don't discount other possibilites ..... in the beginning we were one hundred percent sure that it was the starter push button as after poking it 4 or five times the engine would eventually start!!

Good luck,

Alan.

 

[fastjedi]

Mine had a quite remarkable break in the cable to the starter inside the eyelet. It occurred because the main cable was cleated too tightly to the engine bay. When my lovely smooth (not!) 1GM10 was running the motion sheared the cable. Impossible to see or measure with an ohm or voltmeter (Happy to carry a few milliamps ... Not happy to carry the starter load!)

 

[misterg]

Not sure if I'm flogging dead horse here, or not ( /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif ), but by way of illustration:

[ QUOTE ]
...Impossible to see or measure with an ohm or voltmeter (Happy to carry a few milliamps ... Not happy to carry the starter load!)

[/ QUOTE ]

In this case, test #3 would have shown the voltage collapsing when cranking - because test #1 and #2 would have been OK, we could narrow the problem down to the connection between the +ve battery terminal & the starter solenoid. (Negative return problems would have shown up in test #2)

[ QUOTE ]
...we eventually discovered it was a mechanical problem with a "rod" connection which is activated by the relay and pushes something in the starter motor to engage the it with the flywheel. ..... in the beginning we were one hundred percent sure that it was the starter push button as after poking it 4 or five times the engine would eventually start!!

[/ QUOTE ]

In this case, test #1 would have shown that the starter wasn't trying to draw any current (no voltage 'dip' when cranking). Test #3 would prove that the connections as far as the solenoid were OK. Test #5 would have proved that the voltage from the starter button was getting through consistently, narrowing the problem down to the starter or solenoid. If test #4 could be carried out, it would isolate the fault to the solenoid (burnt contacts, mechanical restriction, etc.), or if a good voltage was detected, the starter (stuck / worn out brushes, etc.)

Not trying to preach - just trying to show the worth of getting some specific measurements.

/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Andy

(edit for typos)

 

[tag13]

1GM10 Starting Problems

Found this post relating to my problem - when pressing start button get a click from solenoid - after several attempts generally starts but does not inspire any confidence. Checked voltages as per misterg's post - all seemed ok except test 5 where the voltage between engine block and key connection on solenoid when cranking was only 9.65 volts (v's battery voltage of 12.85) - the connector block was corroded and I've cleaned it up but no improvement - do you think a new connector block would cure problem?

Tom

 

[Topcat47]

I solved my problem (identical symptoms) over the winter. The heavy cable from the alternator was broken 3mm from the crimp tab (it's the one with two red wires to the one terminal). The broken ends contacted sometimes and enough to power the solonoid. I had the starter checked out by an auto electrician and it was fine which is how I know it was just the wire.

 

[pete]

I have had the same intermittent problem. I cured my fault by replacing the wire from the starter button to the starter solenoid and replacing the 30A fuse and the rubbish fuse holder in the wiring loom (fitted to the engine) with one of these
http://www.thetoolboxshop.com/0-378-85-fuse-holder-for-midi-range-of-fuses-1421-p.asp

 

[KenMcCulloch]

My problem in 2007 was eventually resolved by replacing the main isolator switch which had clearly come to the end of its life, and cleaning up all the connections thoroughly. Oh yes and a starter overhaul. Since then the engine never failed to start at least not because the starter wasn't turning it over vigourously.

 

[steve28]

The fuse is always a good place to start, its in the wiring loom just above the gear selector, the conections are very poor and if its been pulled slightly then the spring wraps just come off the ends of the fuse.
Check main negative wire from battery as well as these tend to corode or break where they are attached.

Steve

 

[Sniper]

I've often looked at that really cr**py fuse holder and wondered what it actually controls. Does all the starting current actually pass through it? If so, I think I'll replace mine as a matter of course because its a really poor design.

 

[Topcat47]

+1 on the fuseholder. In my case the fuse itself failed somehow. It checked out OK on its own but not when in the fuseholder. I eventually got a new fuse (and a spare) but apparently no one at Marine Power could ever remember replacing one. BTW it was working well until I started B*****ing about with it.

The wire containing the fuseholder couldn't sustain full starting current, which is supplied straight from the battery.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Agreed on the fuse and holder, as well as the main engine ground. http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5078.15.html

Easiest place to start (pun intended!).