1974 Versilcraft Mystere alignment problem

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bmwmilos

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Greetings to all! My name is Milos and I am from Rijeka,Croatia. A friend of mine bought a Versilcraft Mystere 3 years ago. He did some woodworking repairs in Italy and last year asked me to come and check the boat's electrical system and engines. I did some of the repairs and he did put it in water in august last year. After some test drives ( well 120 miles from Italy to Rijeka ) I discovered several problems. The boat was excessively in nose up position at 20 knots and there were vibrations from both a shafts.
In autumn we brought the boat back in Italy and I dismounted props,shafts, coolers on both engines,injectors, injection pumps,sea water pumps,...
Props were balanced and rectified ( maybe not the correct term ?? ), shafts checked ok,then I remounted everything back,well, tried to remount back. Here is where the problems begin. The original engines ( Isotta Fraschini ) were removed by previous owner and he installed two Cats 3208TA 435HP with MPM IRM 301P1 1.1:1 gearboxes with parallel output flange. The engine mounts were ,to say the least , horrible. Pieces of steel welded together,engines put so close to fuel tanks that you have difficulty changing v belts,...disaster
Furthermore I discovered that the two bronze shaft supports are not the same and speaking with prop guy I assume that the boat had an incident on the right side damaging shaft support and prop. The repairs were done as they were and now it is a complete disaster.
The shafts are not parallel to the through hull passages and in order to make them parallel I have to completely cut away all of the engine supports and rebuild them. Off course, while keeping a 1000kg engine and gearbox suspended because there is no way of pulling out the engines ( the openings on the fly were screwed in place and covered with wood so no more crane access). The boat also has PYI PSS seals,and as the shafts and passages are not aligned,they are leaking seawater during travel.
So I come to my request. I have been reading the rebuilding of Mitos and I am very impressed. i was wondering if anyone has any drawings of this boat or some measurements of where the props and shaft supports should be so that I at least have something to begin with and work my way inwards?
 
I'm afraid I can't help with your main question, but imho each and every thing you said clearly raise one question: are you sure that the boat isn't well beyond the fine line where it doesn't make economic sense anymore to repair her - no matter how low could have been her purchase price?

Don't get me wrong, I have utmost respect for Versilcraft boats and for what Vas did.

But these days, I've seen a mid 70s Baglietto 18m (epic boat in her days, extensively used also by Italian Customs), with zero major defects, sold for 25k Eur - if you see what I mean...

Anyway, this is just a thought.
I wish you all the very best for the project, of course!

PS: oh, and welcome!
 
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That question is for my friend. He is the one that bought the ship, invested the money in new teak deck and underlying ply, complete new transom, other major woodworking repairs,....
If it was up to me, I wouldn't buy this particular boat in the first place. But, it is here now, in the state that it is and he is asking me to bring it in decent order. I will try to do my best. I am in vacation now, and writing on cell. When I get home I will post pictures and explain a little bit more the whole story.
 
it doesn't sound like a total disaster - obviously your friend has put good money after bad into this boat and wants to move ahead in some way. I doubt he wants to scrap the boat and it will be hard to sell as it is.
the tricky part will be re-aligning the engines properly.
You could build an adjustable frame inside the engine bay to support the rear of the engine, using lifting eyes on long screw threads to take the weight and allow you to move the rear of the engine up and down. Then take off the old mounts and then using the frame adjustment see if you can get a good alignment. Then design new rear mounts. Keep us posted.
 
Maybe I didn't make things clear enough. The two shaft supports ( i don't know the correct term ) are not equal. Furthermore they are not aligned with through hull passages. Looking at the screws of the through hull passages ( and some photos of Mitos ) it seems they have not been touched. Now to align the shafts with engine I had to raise the sb engine for 25mm ( and it was already higher 20mm than Ps engine ). So first thing to do would be to dismount the shaft supports and align them with through hull passages ( and make them parallel to each other ). Only then I can start to work on the engine and gearbox mounts. So at this point some measurements from inside of the boat ( shaft length inside and height from hull at the flange ) and some from outside ( dimensions of shaft support, distance of shafts from keel at the props and perpendicular distance of prop nut from hull ) would be of great help ( from the same ship off course ). I did notice in the other thread from Vas that you mention a site with Mystere pictures and some drawings but that site does not exist anymore. If there was a side view of the boat I could take some of the measurements ( angle of shafts and maybe other things ) to have as starting point.
The bad thing is that i can only use through hull passages as starting point which is not simple.
 
"shaft supports " we call them P brackets
They should be the same identical .
Try and replace the wrong one .Its it obvious to see the wrong one ( repaired one ? )
Ask a good prop shop for the correct size P bracket ,they keep records of boat type etc
Try Francehelices.fr
 
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Hi, currently on the boat doing some work. Agree with PF, got to start right, get the P brackets aligned and identical before you start messing with engine mounts. Please sketch and post what dims you want and I'll do it tomorrow afternoon, no problems!

Good to see another mystere revived!

Hope it's clear which bracket is right as I have no measurement off the water on the brackets, you'll have to wait till she's out...

Cheers

V
 
Both P brackets are complete,in good condition. However they are not the same. I have not yet measured their dimensions if they are only constructively different but with same length and angle. I suppose that the SB one was replaced due to SB prop damage which is now repaired ( by the way here we have an excellent prop guy, he did some miracle works on some props with missing pieces ). I think that I can resolve the problem of different P brackets by aligning them correctly, I saw that there was an angled wooden piece between P bracket and hull. Removing that should bring the shaft more or less aligned with hull passage.
Engine mounts and the entire assembly seems as something the tide brought inside the engine room and it remained that way ( that is a saying in our country ).
Thanks Vas for replying, I was hoping to hear from you also. The work will be done in autumn and months to come, she is now in Rijeka and will do some light cruising as I managed to find a compromise between engine supports and shaft alignment, but this is far from what I want it to be.
 
So, the measurements will be useful even later, especially if you will take your boat out of the water.
One other thing I would like you to do if possible, take a side photo of your boat at different speeds ( 10, 15,20 knots ) so to compare to this one. She was excessively nose up. Engines with gearboxes weigh 1000kg each. We removed water tanks, installed the central one in the corridor ( 600 litres ), the aft platform was a "work of art" weighing almost 400kg, now it is about 90-100. But I still feel she is too much nose up, especially over 20knots. We will try to add some 200-300litres of water ( in 20l tanks ) in bow cabin and see how she reacts.
 
Milo (or is it Milos?),

need a few pics lower looking UP at the p-brackets to be able to help on which side looks right.
Mind there IS some wooden plinth under the bracket "foot" iirc. I'll have to check my last year before and after fouling removal pics, but I'm pretty sure about it.

Also, I'd like to see a side pic with the boat moored so I can establish how bow high it is idle and where your balance is in general. I mean at the aft, what's the height between the waterline and the lower part of the exhaust GRP mould?
You'll notice I've done some serious alterations in the cabin layout, removed completely the joke of a "captains" cabin in the bows, etc. Maybe an exact comparison wont be easy...

Nevertheless I feel that it's fairly flat with tabs down.
Also size of tabs is important, so a pic of them would be nice.
Finally my props don't look like yours, again 4blade but differently cut, I was told mine are Radice, but cannot confirm it.
What windlass, how much chain and what size are you carrying in the bows?

I know a fair number of questions, but wont be able to establish what's going on without all that.

Finally bear in mind that MiToS has two IVECO 8061SRM33 (330hp each) which IIRC are around 600kg each on twin disk boxes, less than 100kg each, so I have maybe 600kg less at the back (although I still do have the 500lt of water in the lazarette). Both my wastegates are rusted solid and stuck, so I'm a bit careful on pushing her a lot (and not so happy at the consumption) so only bothered reaching 20knots a couple of times...

cheers

V.
 
As soon as I have a chance I will take and post photos. For the P brackets , on one the vertical support on the bow side is almost flush with the bearing tube, on the other the vertical support ends roughly 5 cm before the end of the tube. I will sketch it tomorrow.
The exhaust molds have been moved up ( i think but will check ) to align with aft platform. And on aft platform extensions have been made for exhaust. I will also check for chain size and length. What is your consumption currently?
These Cats also seem rather thirsty. If I remember correctly 100 lph for 16 knots but i need to check my notes.
I think the props are also Radice, I think I have a photo somewhere of stamped dimensions. What is your engine rpm and gearbox ratio?
 
And if anyone has the brochures and other documents that used to be on Andy Hayward's ntlworld webpage ? Or layout plans ?
 
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