12V water maker

[dslittle]

2. Get an energy recovery watermaker like the Spectra. These can be run from solar/wind (providing you have enough). The output can be low because the unit can operate many hours if needed. The main engine or generator are not needed to power the unit. The Watts/L is very important. The L/hr can be lower than the first option.QUOTE]

We went this way

A. Because we have plenty of solar power
B. Because I wanted to keep everything at 12v
C. Because I would rather run the Watermaker frequently to keep the membranes in order
D. Because Jim at Sailfish is a thoroughly nice chap!!! (No interest etc...)

 

[Neeves]

I can certainly see the value of a portable watermaking system like the Rainman. I see they are now being sold in the UK by Sailfish Marine who I purchased my energy efficient 12V unit from. www.sailfishmarine.co.uk

They have only been on the market for months, maybe around a year. I find it interesting they have managed to get, basically, worldwide marketing in place. Many new products simply languish in their country of birth

Jonathan

 

[Garry & June 'Friendship']

2. Get an energy recovery watermaker like the Spectra. These can be run from solar/wind (providing you have enough). The output can be low because the unit can operate many hours if needed. The main engine or generator are not needed to power the unit. The Watts/L is very important. The L/hr can be lower than the first option.QUOTE]

+1

we are looking at a low amp low output model like the Katadyn 40e...it only draws 4 amps/hr and our 400w of solar should easily cope with that. I intend to run it every other day for approx 8 hrs whilst the sun is (hopefully!) shining here in the med. The other reason I prefer this option is that researching units one important aspect is that they do not like to sit idle for long periods. It would make no sense to me to make 400 l in a day then not use it for a week and I suspect this would not be healthy for the membranes. If someone can see any reason why I should not go this route before handing over a large chunk of cash I would be grateful to hear why..

 

[geem]

2. Get an energy recovery watermaker like the Spectra. These can be run from solar/wind (providing you have enough). The output can be low because the unit can operate many hours if needed. The main engine or generator are not needed to power the unit. The Watts/L is very important. The L/hr can be lower than the first option.QUOTE]

+1

we are looking at a low amp low output model like the Katadyn 40e...it only draws 4 amps/hr and our 400w of solar should easily cope with that. I intend to run it every other day for approx 8 hrs whilst the sun is (hopefully!) shining here in the med. The other reason I prefer this option is that researching units one important aspect is that they do not like to sit idle for long periods. It would make no sense to me to make 400 l in a day then not use it for a week and I suspect this would not be healthy for the membranes. If someone can see any reason why I should not go this route before handing over a large chunk of cash I would be grateful to hear why..

Having owned the Katadyn 35 making 5l/hr I chose not to go that route this time. Lots of anchorages are not great for making water as they are not clean. Being able to make what you make in 8 hours in less than half an hour is great for me. We tend to run ours every other day to keep it all sweet. We make 133 l/hr from 220v unit. On wash day we run the immersion heater as well as watermaker. We also charge the batteries at the same time to give them a boost

 

[Strolls]

we are looking at a low amp low output model like the Katadyn 40e...it only draws 4 amps/hr and our 400w of solar should easily cope with that.

I understand your reasoning, but it looks like the Ventura 150 produces water at 6x the rate, yet uses only 2.25x as much power.

I didn't think that sitting idle for a week was a problem. The MPC 5000 whizz-flashy controller cycles every 5 days in automatic flush mode, but I thought it was more like 10 or 14 days before you had to worry.

http://www.spectrawatermakers.com/products/marine/ventura-150-200t/

 

[oldvarnish]

Have a look at Rainman Desalinators, either petrol (Honda 4 stroke) or, 12v, electric powered.

Sadly not 12v otherwise a very nice looking bit of kit.
This from their website: Our philosphy is to create high output and low cost systems of simple and robust design. 12VDC is not suitable for powering this type of system.

 

[Neeves]

Correct, my mistake. I had tested the petrol version, lovely bit of kit, and when they introduced the electric I had assumed it was 12v - I have been corrected many times. One should never assume

Jonathan

 

[bjl]

For Garry and June: I have the Katadyn unit. One reason why you shouldn't go down that route might be because you'll have the constant noise in the background all day. Sound insulation might help. Another reason might be because, if you relied upon 8 hours water production every other day then your production could quickly fall behind. Of course, by using the watermaker every day you might be able to make up the shortfall.

 

[geem]

For Garry and June: I have the Katadyn unit. One reason why you shouldn't go down that route might be because you'll have the constant noise in the background all day. Sound insulation might help. Another reason might be because, if you relied upon 8 hours water production every other day then your production could quickly fall behind. Of course, by using the watermaker every day you might be able to make up the shortfall.

As I have also said in earlier posts, we had the 35. The production is woeful. Just s trickle that adds up to just 5 litres in an hour. We felt like we were slaves to the watermaker God. Such low output in my opinion ion isn't worth the financial investment. I was fortunate enough to have a genset on the next boat. I built a high output watermaker from parts bought second hand. Total investment was £1500. We make 133 l/hr. We have enough spares to build another unit in within that cost. The pump is a cat pump. They are noisy but very reliable and simple. If you only run it for 1/2 an hour per day who cares?

 

[Garry & June 'Friendship']

As I have also said in earlier posts, we had the 35. The production is woeful. Just s trickle that adds up to just 5 litres in an hour. We felt like we were slaves to the watermaker God. Such low output in my opinion ion isn't worth the financial investment. I was fortunate enough to have a genset on the next boat. I built a high output watermaker from parts bought second hand. Total investment was £1500. We make 133 l/hr. We have enough spares to build another unit in within that cost. The pump is a cat pump. They are noisy but very reliable and simple. If you only run it for 1/2 an hour per day who cares?

I can understand the production concerns and as such am now considering the 80e to more than double the output and or reduce the running time for not much more capital outlay. I cannot fathom your previous quote regarding certain anchorages not being good for making water...if this is the case it doesn't matter if your unit makes 5/50/500 l/hr does it.
Also although your unit sounds great I am looking for a unit to run off my batteries and 400w of solar. I certainly do not wish to install a genset or run one off my engines.
Also of paramount importance for me is warranty and aftercare and from what I have researched the service from Jim at Mactra and the warranty from Katadyn is second to none.

 

[geem]

I can understand the production concerns and as such am now considering the 80e to more than double the output and or reduce the running time for not much more capital outlay. I cannot fathom your previous quote regarding certain anchorages not being good for making water...if this is the case it doesn't matter if your unit makes 5/50/500 l/hr does it.
Also although your unit sounds great I am looking for a unit to run off my batteries and 400w of solar. I certainly do not wish to install a genset or run one off my engines.
Also of paramount importance for me is warranty and aftercare and from what I have researched the service from Jim at Mactra and the warranty from Katadyn is second to none.

You miss understand me. It was probably my poor explanation.
If you are in an anchorage and the water is not clean enough to make water then being able to go out of the anchorage for an hour to make lots of water has its advantages. The alternative is to have a very large water tank or both. I wasn't suggesting you install a genset. My prefererence for watermaker type would be 220v off genset. Second choice would be engine driven. I would not go the 12v route again. You do not have enough solar in my opinion to run a 12v watermaker. Most of my friends here in the Caribbean admit that they generally run the engine to make water on their 12v watermaker or they use it mainly when engining somewhere. If you are going to do that you may as well go engine driven. Run a cat pump with a clutch from the engine and a pair of 40 inch membranes and you can make 170 litres per hour. Run the engine for 1/2 an hour at anchor every day and you have more than enough water. (Have a look at the Echotec units sold by
Hydro and in UK). You also charge your batteries. Run a 12v watermaker for several hours a day off your solar and you will not be using your solar to recover what you lost out of your batteries inn the night from the fridge, anchor light, etc.
This is not me guessing this. Having discussed water makers with my friends here this is what happens.
Two boats that I know that run watermakers successfully from solar are both catamarans. They both have over 1000w of solar. If you are at only 400w I believe you will be forced to run the engine to charge you batteries fully if you opt for a 12v watermaker. If you can double your solar it might work ok. Hope you are not upset by my comments. They are based on experience here in the Caribbean.

 

[Garry & June 'Friendship']

You miss understand me. It was probably my poor explanation.
If you are in an anchorage and the water is not clean enough to make water then being able to go out of the anchorage for an hour to make lots of water has its advantages. The alternative is to have a very large water tank or both. I wasn't suggesting you install a genset. My prefererence for watermaker type would be 220v off genset. Second choice would be engine driven. I would not go the 12v route again. You do not have enough solar in my opinion to run a 12v watermaker. Most of my friends here in the Caribbean admit that they generally run the engine to make water on their 12v watermaker or they use it mainly when engining somewhere. If you are going to do that you may as well go engine driven. Run a cat pump with a clutch from the engine and a pair of 40 inch membranes and you can make 170 litres per hour. Run the engine for 1/2 an hour at anchor every day and you have more than enough water. (Have a look at the Echotec units sold by
Hydro and in UK). You also charge your batteries. Run a 12v watermaker for several hours a day off your solar and you will not be using your solar to recover what you lost out of your batteries inn the night from the fridge, anchor light, etc.
This is not me guessing this. Having discussed water makers with my friends here this is what happens.
Two boats that I know that run watermakers successfully from solar are both catamarans. They both have over 1000w of solar. If you are at only 400w I believe you will be forced to run the engine to charge you batteries fully if you opt for a 12v watermaker. If you can double your solar it might work ok. Hope you are not upset by my comments. They are based on experience here in the Caribbean.

Hi Geen, sorry I certainly are not upset by your comments and I appreciate them. Your system sounds great but its not the route I want to take. I want to go 12v and find it strange that you think my power system will not cope with a draw of approx. 9 amp over say 3-4 hours a day. Usually where we are on the Algarve my 450ah of domestic bank is fully charged by 10 or 11.00 am. At anchor I only run my engines once a fortnight to give the batteries a boost and just to keep them ticking over nicely. I am also planning to install uprated pre filters to allow use in not so perfect water. Obviously I would not use in a dirty/oily harbour or marina ie in the winter but then we will have use of shore water anyway. I know you are quoting from experience but just cannot believe I need 1000w of solar to run a 9 a/hr water maker for a few hours a day.

 

[jordanbasset]

Interesting web page about watermakers here and 'myths' surrounding them
http://www.seaclearwatermakers.com/yacht-watermaker-myths.php
Myth #5: Watermakers can't be used in harbors and anchorages because the water is too dirty.
The Reality: Whereas the previous myths noted have likely resulted from misunderstanding or misinterpretation, this one is just plain false. The water in many harbors and anchorages may be dirty or have a lot of silt and organic matter; the only effect this has on your watermaker is that the pre-filters get dirtier. If you're changing your pre-filters every 6 months, as we discussed above, there should be no problem.'

Without causing too much of a thread drift would be interested in knowing if this is the reality for people with watermakers. Only ask as my new boat has a ecotech water maker included in it. Never used a watermaker before so will be an interesting experience.

 

[geem]

Interesting web page about watermakers here and 'myths' surrounding them
http://www.seaclearwatermakers.com/yacht-watermaker-myths.php
Myth #5: Watermakers can't be used in harbors and anchorages because the water is too dirty.
The Reality: Whereas the previous myths noted have likely resulted from misunderstanding or misinterpretation, this one is just plain false. The water in many harbors and anchorages may be dirty or have a lot of silt and organic matter; the only effect this has on your watermaker is that the pre-filters get dirtier. If you're changing your pre-filters every 6 months, as we discussed above, there should be no problem.'

Without causing too much of a thread drift would be interested in knowing if this is the reality for people with watermakers. Only ask as my new boat has a ecotech water maker included in it. Never used a watermaker before so will be an interesting experience.

I am sure you will be very happy with your Echotec water maker. They are great bits of kit and nice and simple.
My experience with water makers.
We do not run the watermaker in dirty harbours and anchorages where there are lots of boats where toilets are being pumped out. It is personal choice not to make drinking water from this polluted water. All my friends with watermakers make the same choice.
Depending where you sail will have an impact on how often you need to clean your pre filters. Here in the Caribbean there is a lot of plankton in the water. The pre filters pick this up and if left on the filters for a couple of days it smells bad. Pulling the filters regularly and swapping them with some clean ones stops this. We just rotate a pair of filters.
Some of the anchorages here have a lot of fine silt. We normally run 50 micron and 5 micron filters. Where there is lots of very fine silt we run 20 micron and 1 micron. When I drop the 1 micron filter over the side on a line to rinse it it is amazing how much more it has collected. The filter appears to be full of dust. We do this to provide additional protection for the RO membrane.
The pre filter housings are clear plastic. We don't have pressure gauges. We simply look at the filters and if they look discoloured, we swap them and hang them over the side over night to get the contamination off them. Even better, we tow them when sailing.
We have a domestic water meter with a pulsed output that counts in litres. This is installed on the output to the tank so we know how much water we are making. We also have one on the water tank pumped supply so we know how much we are using. With two of us onboard and two hairy dogs we have averaged 40 litres per day over the last 20 days. This includes washing clothes that can use up to 100 litres when we do a big wash.
When we make water the first 2 gallons normally has high TDS. We save this water in a plastic can to either fill the solar shower, rinse the cockpit or rinse clothes when washing. We don't waste it. We are not particularly careful with water consumption because we don't need to be. It is a luxury for people without a watermaker to have a nice shower. We take it for granted. We haven't been in to a marina for over 13 months because we would rather anchor where it is cooler. A watermaker helps with this lifestyle.
Good luck with your watermaker

 

[Sandyman]

''We do not run the watermaker in dirty harbours and anchorages where there are lots of boats where toilets are being pumped out. It is personal choice not to make drinking water from this polluted water.''

Where do you think the water comes from in household taps ?

 

[jordanbasset]

I am sure you will be very happy with your Echotec water maker. They are great bits of kit and nice and simple.
My experience with water makers.
We do not run the watermaker in dirty harbours and anchorages where there are lots of boats where toilets are being pumped out. It is personal choice not to make drinking water from this polluted water. All my friends with watermakers make the same choice.
Depending where you sail will have an impact on how often you need to clean your pre filters. Here in the Caribbean there is a lot of plankton in the water. The pre filters pick this up and if left on the filters for a couple of days it smells bad. Pulling the filters regularly and swapping them with some clean ones stops this. We just rotate a pair of filters.
Some of the anchorages here have a lot of fine silt. We normally run 50 micron and 5 micron filters. Where there is lots of very fine silt we run 20 micron and 1 micron. When I drop the 1 micron filter over the side on a line to rinse it it is amazing how much more it has collected. The filter appears to be full of dust. We do this to provide additional protection for the RO membrane.
The pre filter housings are clear plastic. We don't have pressure gauges. We simply look at the filters and if they look discoloured, we swap them and hang them over the side over night to get the contamination off them. Even better, we tow them when sailing.
We have a domestic water meter with a pulsed output that counts in litres. This is installed on the output to the tank so we know how much water we are making. We also have one on the water tank pumped supply so we know how much we are using. With two of us onboard and two hairy dogs we have averaged 40 litres per day over the last 20 days. This includes washing clothes that can use up to 100 litres when we do a big wash.
When we make water the first 2 gallons normally has high TDS. We save this water in a plastic can to either fill the solar shower, rinse the cockpit or rinse clothes when washing. We don't waste it. We are not particularly careful with water consumption because we don't need to be. It is a luxury for people without a watermaker to have a nice shower. We take it for granted. We haven't been in to a marina for over 13 months because we would rather anchor where it is cooler. A watermaker helps with this lifestyle.
Good luck with your watermaker

Cheers for the info

 

[geem]

''We do not run the watermaker in dirty harbours and anchorages where there are lots of boats where toilets are being pumped out. It is personal choice not to make drinking water from this polluted water.''

Where do you think the water comes from in household taps ?

Depends where you live. At our house it comes from a natural spring filtered through rock.
Like I said, personal choice. Where there is a large concentration of toilets being pumped out, we choose not to drink it! If you are happy to drink it that entirely up to you

 

[Strolls]

Our current watermaker is 240v that runs off the generator or via the large inverter withe the engine running. We use a cat pump, standard 40 inch membranes and a 1.5 kW motor. We make 135 litres per hour …

What make is yours, please, geem? Or did you DIY?

I didn't appreciate your figures before, and it was only yesterday that I compared them with the £4000 Spectra Ventura 150 and realised yours produces 5x as much water.

 

[geem]

What make is yours, please, geem? Or did you DIY?

I didn't appreciate your figures before, and it was only yesterday that I compared them with the £4000 Spectra Ventura 150 and realised yours produces 5x as much water.

We actually have a 40 inch and a 21 inch membrane hence the 133 litres. I started off with pair of 21 inch membranes but one of the pressure vessels failed.
I built my watermaker from second hand stuff off EBay. I found three cat pumps at about £50 each. We carry one as a spare and one is at home. My total investment including the new housing and two membranes is less than £1500 and I have lots of spares.

 

[Garry & June 'Friendship']

What make is yours, please, geem? Or did you DIY?

I didn't appreciate your figures before, and it was only yesterday that I compared them with the £4000 Spectra Ventura 150 and realised yours produces 5x as much water.

Not exactly a like for like comparison !!