10mm chain or 8mm chain?

vyv_cox said:
Sorry, should have said he could NOT tell the difference. He had two replacement anchors, one with resin isolator. Both corroded. There is a pic of the second one on my website.
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I had understood you meant - because it corroded too quickly - he could not tell the difference. I think you meant he could not tell the performance difference between alloy and steel - but unfortunately his aluminium Spade(s) both corroded.

One thing I had noticed. Spade anchors when housed on a bow roller can produce a receptacle in the 'top' of the ballast chamber. It can hold water as the chamber is not sealed and when filled with lead leaves a void in the 'top'. I saw a gal steel Spade with a neat hole corroded into a steel model, right through the side of the receptacle (ballast chamber) - later the owner had the hole welded closed and painted. it would be so easy to weld a cap onto the chamber and seal it off.

Your friend was very unlucky - and we have been very lucky!

Its nice to know that someone else can confirm that poor performance of alloy is something of, another , marine myth. Pity they do not seem to have addressed the corrosion issue - satisfactorily. I don't know what ballast Anchor Right use (they cast steel into the steel version) but do weld an end plate onto the chamber for both steel and alloy.

Jonathan
 
In my view, the aluminium Spade is not as good as the excellent steel version. Underwater in hard substrates there is a noticeable difference in performance.

There have been a couple of formal anchor tests that have included both the steel and aluminium versions of the Spade, confirming the steel version is noticeably superior.
 
noelex said:
In my view, the aluminium Spade is not as good as the excellent steel version. Underwater in hard substrates there is a noticeable difference in performance.

There have been a couple of formal anchor tests that have included both the steel and aluminium versions of the Spade, confirming the steel version is noticeably superior.
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Have you used an aluminium Spade, have you used a steel Spade? Interesting contradiction from 2 people who have used both - in real life.

Any links to the reviews

Jonathan
 
The difference between the steel and aluminium versions is well reported, including by people who have owned both.

For example, here are comments made by of the respected writer Maine Sail (his emphasis not mine):

''My S80 Spade out performs our A80 Spade EASILY in hard bottoms. In softer substrates you can not tell the difference and both perform the same..."

You can see his comments here:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/211777-aluminum-anchors.html

Neeves said:
Any links to the reviews
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The two anchor tests that have included both the steel and aluminium Spade models are the large multi magazine collaborative trial that was conducted in both 2003 and 2009. These were published in several magazines and different languages. Sorry, I only have limited internet access at the moment, but a Google search should show up the links.

Some comments for the anchor test on the aluminium version:
"Not great on a hard seabed"
"During our 2003 test we found it had trouble setting in harder types of bottom"

In the 2009 test the holding power of the steel Spade (S80) was excellent at 1905kg. The aluminium version (A80) only managed a little over half of this at 1052kg.

It is also worth noting that even Spade themselves reluctantly acknowledge the differences between the steel and aluminium versions, although they obviously do not emphasise this limitation. They recommend their steel anchors for much larger yachts than the aluminium version of the same size (dimensions not weight).

For example the Spade S80 is recommended for yachts:
41 feet, weighing less than 14,330 lbs

The identically dimensioned A80 is is recomended for yachts:
to 34 feet, weighing less than 9,920 lbs.



In my view, the aluminium Spade is not a bad anchor and is worth considering as a kedge anchor or if you have specific needs such as a racing yacht, but for most cruising yachts the steel version is a superb anchor and a much better choice.

Now back to talking about chain. This is a much better way to save significant amounts of weight on your ground tackle.
 
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Stange when, some, other anchor makers suggest a larger anchor for more arduous conditions its a sign of excellence. When its Spade its something to criticise. When you suggest one should buy a larger anchor that's - hard won experience, when Spade suggest a larger alloy you suggest it is only good enough as a kedge - and have never used either the steel nor alloy version.

You omit to mention that Spade acknowledged that their alloy version needed tweaking and added extra lead in the toe. Ours is one with the extra lead - which must have been 'upgraded about 2008/2010.

Fortunately some people who actually use them full time have more confidence and actual experience. The steel Spade is an excellent choice, ours an S80 (15kg) sits in our workshop and we carry and use the 8kg A80 in preference (38' LOA, 22.5' beam, 7t; windage of a Bav 45) and have been using with success using our 6mm rode..

Jonathan
 
Neeves said:
When its Spade its something to criticise.
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No criticism of Spade is intended. On the contrary, I think they are being refreshingly honest acknowledging the aluminium version, while more expensive, is suitable for smaller sized yachts than the steel version.

Spade also anounce on their website:
"We do not recommend the use of an aluminium anchor as a main anchor." And

"the model in steel will dig in slightly more readily than the equivalent aluminium version"

Manufacturers do not like admitting that one of their models has lower performance, and I think Spade deserve some Brownie points for the above statements.
 
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noelex said:
No criticism of Spade is intended. On the contrary, I think they are being refreshingly honest acknowledging the aluminium version, while more expensive, is suitable for smaller sized yachts than the steel version.
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I'm sure no insult was intended - but I'm pleased that you acknowledge that our A80 is suitable for our smaller yacht. You have obviously taken note that it has been perfectly acceptable from 40 degrees south to the tropics.

I note you still need to confirm the full anchor arrangement on the new yacht. With this change of heart - maybe you will be looking at a more dependable High Tensile light chain ...... and then what next?

Jonathan
 
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The friend who owned two aluminium and then a steel Spade and found no noticeable performance difference was in Greece. What might be described as a hard bottom would be fairly unusual there.

My own experience of a hard bottom was sand immediately outside Pwllheli marina, effectively a surf beach. It is the only place where we were totally unable to dig in a Delta anchor, despite trying repeatedly. It simply skidded across the seabed and after maybe 10 attempts we gave up.
 
FWIW, I have been using an A80 for over 15 years, exclusively as a stern anchor for bows to mooring. I have found the holding to be excellent, once dug in. The only weak point has been a reluctance to set on a very short scope (sometimes inevitable in natural harbours etc).
 
BabaYaga said:
FWIW, I have been using an A80 for over 15 years, exclusively as a stern anchor for bows to mooring. I have found the holding to be excellent, once dug in. The only weak point has been a reluctance to set on a very short scope (sometimes inevitable in natural harbours etc).
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Out of interest - and apologies to the Lady - what do you mean by 'short'. We'ed commonly set any anchor at 3:1, as if it does not set there is less chain to retrieve if we need to reset in a different spot (so the 3:1 is simply defined by laziness), once set or a vestige of hold - then deploy more (usually 5:1) and power set. I have set at 2.5:1 in good sand - once (and the anchor held in 35 knot gusts and almost 700kg dynamic loads - but that was part of a test).

Jonathan
 
Neeves said:
Out of interest - and apologies to the Lady - what do you mean by 'short'. We'ed commonly set any anchor at 3:1, as if it does not set there is less chain to retrieve if we need to reset in a different spot (so the 3:1 is simply defined by laziness), once set or a vestige of hold - then deploy more (usually 5:1) and power set. I have set at 2.5:1 in good sand - once (and the anchor held in 35 knot gusts and almost 700kg dynamic loads - but that was part of a test).
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Difficult to say precisely... Anchoring from the stern while approaching a rock to tie up to is very different from 'normal' bows anchoring. For instance, any distance required by the anchor to move over the seabed before setting means scope lost in the end (because the rock is very stationary).
So even if setting the A80 on a 3:1 scope is quite possible in many cases, in a confined space of a natural harbour you might 'run out of' sufficient scope for the anchor to set at all.
With a heavier anchor (I used to carry a fisherman's) the pure weight could be useful, at least temporarily, but an unset aluminum Spade on a short scope is totally useless.
But as said, once set the A80 holds very well in my experience.
 
Baba,

Most of the stern anchoring gear I have seen on the Baltic is primarily rope, with sometimes a short length of chain. I see the rope sometimes neatly disappearing into the transom through a hawse pipe (other times held loosely in a basket, sometimes on a tape drum). Do, some, people have electric windlass/rope drums in the lazarette?

I also note that stern bow rollers, if that is not a contradiction, are common - they would have a place on most long distance cruising yachts - I'm surprised they are not more popular.

Jonathan
 
Neeves said:
Do, some, people have electric windlass/rope drums in the lazarette?

I also note that stern bow rollers, if that is not a contradiction, are common - they would have a place on most long distance cruising yachts - I'm surprised they are not more popular.
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Yes, both are becoming increasingly common. Sometimes for all chain rodes, sometimes for rope, which is then often of the leaded type. Stern anchor rollers are often found on the sugar scope.
 
Thanks Baba,

I had noted that Baltic mooring has developed independent of mooring off the bow with unique solutions (which could be very usefully transferred). It offers a whole new dimension to anchoring - and proves one size, certainly, does not fit all. Its interesting that Baltic mooring has developed as 'bow in' but Med mooring has developed as 'stern in' - and as I note Baltic yachts with no anchor on the bow roller I note only a few yachts in the Med with formal stern anchor arrangements.

Jonathan
 
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