100% Jib Sail

[stownsend]

Evening All

I've asked this on the Hanse forums but not had any joy so thought I would open it up the YBW ones.

I've got a standard 100% jib on my Hanse 301 and its seen betters days (boat purchased in April 2012) - hasn't got a UV strip so the edge stitching is rotting and starting to split. The plan for a temp repair is to stich a 15cm strip up the edge to hold it all together etc..

The long term plan is to replace the sail, we use the self tacker when cruising and then switch to a standard setup when racing. If we were to increase to say a 125 % genoa what would be the increase in performance and can we use the self tacker - even if we have to reef back to 100% size for it to work ?

Cheers

Stu

 

[sailorman]

Evening All

I've asked this on the Hanse forums but not had any joy so thought I would open it up the YBW ones.

I've got a standard 100% jib on my Hanse 301 and its seen betters days (boat purchased in April 2012) - hasn't got a UV strip so the edge stitching is rotting and starting to split. The plan for a temp repair is to stich a 15cm strip up the edge to hold it all together etc..

The long term plan is to replace the sail, we use the self tacker when cruising and then switch to a standard setup when racing. If we were to increase to say a 125 % genoa what would be the increase in performance and can we use the self tacker - even if we have to reef back to 100% size for it to work ?

Cheers

Stu

self tacking only works for non overlapping sail i.e jib

 

[garvellachs]

125% on self-tacker

I can think of three issues:

You will need a genoa track obviously - but maybe you have that already?
Reefing the 125% to sheet it on the self-tacker will raise problems with the lead of sheet?
With extra headsail area there will be balance to think about - weather helm etc?

The second is hardest?

 

[scottie]

We have a 370 which also has a self tacker and the same dilemma.
We use 135%( maybe a bit big) genoa in light weather up to about 16 -20 knots wind especially for racing
it does mean reducing the main earlier.
Off wind we can carry it in to the upper range and find that we require the area down wind .
We have never tried it rolled in as a self tacker but as the leads are there for cars it's not really a problem in fact we sometimes use the track down wind with the self tacker rather than have it shunting itself .
My own thoughts are the best combination would be a code 0 or cruising chute with a well cut self tacker
The self tacking goes a long way to making up for lack of area upwind especially if short tacking especially for crew of pensioners but down wind you need as a much area as you can get .

 

[bitbaltic]

Evening All

I've asked this on the Hanse forums but not had any joy so thought I would open it up the YBW ones.

I've got a standard 100% jib on my Hanse 301 and its seen betters days (boat purchased in April 2012) - hasn't got a UV strip so the edge stitching is rotting and starting to split. The plan for a temp repair is to stich a 15cm strip up the edge to hold it all together etc..

The long term plan is to replace the sail, we use the self tacker when cruising and then switch to a standard setup when racing. If we were to increase to say a 125 % genoa what would be the increase in performance and can we use the self tacker - even if we have to reef back to 100% size for it to work ?

Cheers

Stu

I've got the standard jib (original 2001) and an approximately 115% genoa (crusader 2004) on mine Stu.

Had one go with the self tacker and didn't like it so we always have sheets on cars with both sails.

The Genoa doesn't fit correctly (luff too short to get the donuts in the right place on the foil, makes it hard to unfurl as the halyard wraps) so I took it off until I get a strop made up to fly it eight inches higher from the tack.

Generally speaking don't see a performance advantage with the genoa in the kind of winds we are sailing in. All it means is it is that much harder to reef it in when you inevitably have to do so.

Sailing elsewhere or if we ever get a balmy summer in the Bristol Channel though, I couldn't comment.

in theory the more wrap around the foil at the luff the less well a sail will set, so a 125% genoa reefed to 100% will set less well than a smaller genoa which will set less well than a 100% jib.

Don't know if in reality it would make much difference though unless blowing hard.

You would definitely have to reef back to 100% to switch to the self tacker but in practice under way you'll have to furl it completely and change the sheets to switch to the self tacker. Sounds a lot of bother.

We won't be going out until next season now but if you haven't bought a new sail by then you are welcome to come out and we will have a play with the genoa to find out.

Have you thought about taking the jib to Josh at Severn Sails to see if he can't repair and tidy it up? even if you buy the genoa thereafter it is still worth having a no.1 on board.

Cheers

 

[stownsend]

Thanks for the responses and the offer !

I've had a bull park figure from Josh and it was around the £150 to £200 mark to put on a UV strip and tidy the sale up. We use the self tacker when family sailing and put the 2 lines up when attempting to race. I like the 100% jib and wondered if it was feasable to increase to 125% and reef this in to 100% for the self tacker, it appears you can't !

Cheers

Stu

 

[JimC]

My own thoughts are the best combination would be a code 0 or cruising chute with a well cut self tacker
The self tacking goes a long way to making up for lack of area upwind especially if short tacking especially for crew of pensioners but down wind you need as much area as you can get .

Do you find, as I do with the self-tacker on my Hunter, that there is another drawback to these sails apart from their necessarily small area; in that as you come further off the wind and ease the sheet, the upper leech sags away to leeward and flutters, which can only be cured by over-sheeting the sail. I think it's a consequence of the narrow sheeting base and the fact that the sheet's pull is predominantly downward.

I am torn between getting a conventionally sheeted genoa (110% is the most that can be managed on the Hunter) or staying with the self-tacker and supplementing it with a Code 0 or cruising chute. I'll probably go for the 110% genoa which I guess would be the easier option for single-handing.

 

[William_H]

Self tacking jibs

They come in 2 styles either with a boom or without. Without a boom you would be hard pressed to get a decent shape in the jib when off the wind. (As said). It is a bit like a main sail without a boom.
The other disadvantage of self tacking jib is that you an not use the jib when backed to steer the boat as in assist a tack or when departing a swing mooring or jetty.
Yes I am sure some people may find the advantages outweigh the disadvantages but I like an ordinary jib.
As for size this depends on typical weather you sail in. If it is usually fairly windy then a smaller jib will be better. (fully unfurled) But if you have often light wind then you need a bigger jib and have to accept less performance form the sail when it is partly furled.
To ask about speed improvement is not a simple question. If you have the correct amount of sail out the boat should be going max speed. However in light winds more sail will improve speed a lot. I think I would go for the code 0 or cruising chute and stick with the smaller jib. But we mostly get lots of wind in summer here. So yes repair the old jib and get some experience. Time will tell if you need more sail area. olewill

 

[knuterikt]

Evening All

I've asked this on the Hanse forums but not had any joy so thought I would open it up the YBW ones.

I've got a standard 100% jib on my Hanse 301 and its seen betters days (boat purchased in April 2012) - hasn't got a UV strip so the edge stitching is rotting and starting to split. The plan for a temp repair is to stich a 15cm strip up the edge to hold it all together etc..

The long term plan is to replace the sail, we use the self tacker when cruising and then switch to a standard setup when racing. If we were to increase to say a 125 % genoa what would be the increase in performance and can we use the self tacker - even if we have to reef back to 100% size for it to work ?

Cheers

Stu

I think it will be difficult (or impossible) to design a 125% sail that will be OK as a self tacking sail when furled to a 100% size. You could ask some sail makers what they think - I find that good sail makers are always willing to discuss new ideas.

I love my self tacking head sail because we sail a lot in inshore waters = tacking often.
I sail short or single handed most of the time, another reason to use self tacker.

Have code 0 for light wind conditions.

There are some things that that can be done to improve sail shape and trimming of a self tacker.

My sail is of a design my sail maker has named "glider head sail" it is designed with a standing batten that give more sail area in in the top of the sail.
Picture from the web site, you can see the increased girth at the top of the sail (and it can still be furled)

I have rigged barber haulers on my boat, mine are rigged so I can use it to both open & close the sheeting angle.
Can of course be adjusted from the cockpit

Sometimes I will also use "normal" sheets if it can improve sail shape (there is no problem attaching normal sheets w/o removing the self tacking one)

 

[Daydream believer]

Do you find, as I do with the self-tacker on my Hunter, that there is another drawback to these sails apart from their necessarily small area; in that as you come further off the wind and ease the sheet, the upper leech sags away to leeward and flutters, which can only be cured by over-sheeting the sail. .

The issue can be rectified for reaching etc by having a down haul fixed to the gunwale, forward of the track by a couple of feet or so. I use this & by applying downward pressure on the clew the leech can be controlled.
I do not have dedicated sheets but I do have a long line for downhauling the cruising chute. I pass this back from the bow & through a snatch block on the gunwale then up to the clew of the jib
If one is reaching then one is not tacking so i do not need 2 of these as i would not be constantly swopping from side to side. Simple to set up & cost effective

 

[Daydream believer]

I've got the standard jib (original 2001) and an approximately 115% genoa (crusader 2004) on mine Stu.


The Genoa doesn't fit correctly (luff too short to get the donuts in the right place on the foil, makes it hard to unfurl as the halyard wraps) so I took it off until I get a strop made up to fly it eight inches higher from the deck

Have you considered 1) it will look awful.You would only need a blue UV strip & People will think you have one of those old clapped out Westerlies!!! 2) the position of the sheet cars will be different ie further back
If you do not fit the self tacking jib you may solve the problem by fitting a lead out lower down the mast so that the halliard meets the foil at a sharper angle
Only problem with this is tat you would not be able to change to a sail with a longer luff. But you may not have to fit the leadout( sorry cannot think of the correct term for a pulley mounted on the mast) far down the mast to sort it

 

[JimC]

Thanks for the tips on improving the set of a self-tacking jib. It does seem though that the with the extra ropes and complications one might as well have had a conventionally sheeted sail?

 

[knuterikt]

Thanks for the tips on improving the set of a self-tacking jib. It does seem though that the with the extra ropes and complications one might as well have had a conventionally sheeted sail?

It depends on how and where you sail your boat.

I don't want to change back, but I would probably have made barber hauler for a conventionally sheeted sail.

 

[knuterikt]

The Genoa doesn't fit correctly (luff too short to get the donuts in the right place on the foil, makes it hard to unfurl as the halyard wraps) so I took it off until I get a strop made up to fly it eight inches higher from the tack.

If you don't want/need to fly the jib eight inches higher, you can put the strop between the head of the sail and the donut (I think the proper name in English is top swivel).
This will also help avoid halyard wrap but give you a better set of your sail

 

[bitbaltic]

If you don't want/need to fly the jib eight inches higher, you can put the strop between the head of the sail and the donut (I think the proper name in English is top swivel).
This will also help avoid halyard wrap but give you a better set of your sail

yep it wouldn't matter either way. The sail was ordered by a previous owner and was a boat show job. The best thing to do is probably order another genoa that fits!

It's not too much of a worry at the moment though.

 

[stownsend]

we're out tomorrow so i'm going to have a play to see what we can do with the tacker etc..

cheers

stu

 

[knuterikt]

yep it wouldn't matter either way. The sail was ordered by a previous owner and was a boat show job. The best thing to do is probably order another genoa that fits!

It's not too much of a worry at the moment though.

Adding a strop to get the swivel at the correct height is a normal procedure.

A strop made of dyneema cost far less than a new sail, is not much of a job to make one.

So if the sail is in good shape and you don't need the extra m2 you gain by getting a new sail that matches exact it a strop at the head of the sail is the way to go.