10 year standing rigging and gas pipe insurance question - new boat issues

[niccapotamus]

In my blow by blow forum advised purchase of a new boat we have had the survey done on what we hope will be our seawolf 30.

long list of jobs, mainly maintenance inspired including servicing of fittings etc etc.

However, we need to replace seacocks that have seized, the standing rigging is 10 years old and the gas pipework is not up to standard.

Do we think that the insurance company will require that we do the rigging and pipework before they will insure us? Or do some insurers allow standing rigging to go to 15 years?

and has anyone reccomendations of good insurers?

thanks

Nick

 

[sailorman]

read their condition's & exclusion, do the online application then phone Barrie Sullivan & have a chat

http://yyachtinsurance.com/

many here are insured with them

 

[Tranona]

No hard and fast rules about what insurers ask for. Chances are, though, a new insurer for a new boat/client will look at the survey and set conditions. Rigging and gas are two obvious ones and if the surveyor recommends replacement then chances are insurers will insist. There is no legal requirement on gas but a good basis is the inland waterways BSS requirements and you can also get good guidance from Southern Calor in Southampton. Some insurers will accept a condition report from a recognised rigger rather than complete rig replacement.

 

[YKPLondon]

Any idea how much standing rigging replacement would cost on a boat of that size? Asking as I am thinking of buying something similar.

As far as gas is concerned - would not fixing it exclude the boat entirely from insurance? Or is it conditional, i.e. they will insure the boat provided I do not carry a gas bottle on board?

YKPLondon

 

[Birdseye]

In my blow by blow forum advised purchase of a new boat we have had the survey done on what we hope will be our seawolf 30.

long list of jobs, mainly maintenance inspired including servicing of fittings etc etc.

However, we need to replace seacocks that have seized, the standing rigging is 10 years old and the gas pipework is not up to standard.

Do we think that the insurance company will require that we do the rigging and pipework before they will insure us? Or do some insurers allow standing rigging to go to 15 years?

and has anyone reccomendations of good insurers?

thanks

Nick

Most insurers wont put a time limit on the rigging at all. But that doesnt mean its sense to keep it - you simply dont know how the boat has been used and there is no practical way of predicting the fatigue status of a wire rope. Peace of mind lies in changing it and you can do that yourself without incurring huge cost. Ditto the gas pipe.

 

[C08]

Most likely is that insurers will take account of whatever the surveyor says about the rigging. IMO Pantaneus is probably the best insurers but maybe 30% more than other good insurers. Navigators & general seem pretty good and cheaper than Pants.

 

[sailorman]

Most likely is that insurers will take account of whatever the surveyor says about the rigging. IMO Pantaneus is probably the best insurers but maybe 30% more than other good insurers. Navigators & general seem pretty good and cheaper than Pants.

And if any gear is over 10 yrs old deduct 30% too

 

[wklein]

in my experience insurance companies dont insist upon rigging being the right age but payouts for failure tail off dramatically after 10 - 12 years. Aside from your own personal safety

 

[vyv_cox]

I have been with Haven KJ for nearly 20 years. They have never asked for a survey nor stipulated any requirements as to rigging or gas pipes. I understand that if they were now asked to insure an older boat (25 years?) they would insist on a survey.

 

[jwilson]

Insurers do not all have a fixed date by which they require standing rigging renewal, however many will offer cover based on wording such as "...warranted all survey recommendations carried out". The insurers that do want rigging changed at set dates sometimes say 10, sometimes 12 or 15. Personally I feel this one-size-fits-all plan is silly, the rig strength and longevity is very different on a modern racing boat with a bendy mast and thin wires and a old-fashioned cruiser with a column-mast and overspecced wires.

If the surveyor specifically recommends changing the standing rigging or renewing gas pipework, you have no choice if you want to use that insurer. There are some insurers who are well aware that in practice most older production boats simply don't suffer much from masts falling down as they were over-rigged to start with, and do not make specific requirements as to standing rigging age. However it would be somewhat awkward if you did lose the rig shortly after a survey recommended the wires be changed, especially if the insurer appointed the same surveyor to assess the damage from the dismasting.

We have as broker sold boats where surveyors made similar recommendations, but the new owners preferred to have work done at their home club/boatyard, rather than at the location the boat was bought from. Most insurers will accept this, and agree (for instance) to the boat being insured whilst MOTORED in good weather to the new location with no gas used or no gas bottle onboard.

Occasionally I feel a few surveyors put too much in their recommendations section: things that should really be suggestions. To be silly, if a surveyor RECOMMENDED that the boat would look better if the hull was painted pink with green dots, would that mean that the boat could not be insured till that was done. More often it is recommending a standard list of 'safety kit' be carried, some of which may be OTT for the buyers intended usage - perhaps pottering about in Poole Harbour on nice days in summer.

 

[Doug_Stormforce]

I work on the basis that there is little point in paying an expert for advice and then ignoring it.

If a surveyor recommends replacing things like gas pipework (and standing rigging) then its probably a good idea.

The orange flexible gas hoses found at each end of the gas system on many yachts should really be changed every 5 years.

If there is any doubt as to the state of the rig, send a rigger up there for an hour or so, he will soon report back to you what specifically needs doing or otherwise.

 

[sailorman]

I work on the basis that there is little point in paying an expert for advice and then ignoring it.

If a surveyor recommends replacing things like gas pipework (and standing rigging) then its probably a good idea.

The orange flexible gas hoses found at each end of the gas system on many yachts should really be changed every 5 years.

If there is any doubt as to the state of the rig, send a rigger up there for an hour or so, he will soon report back to you what specifically needs doing or otherwise.

are they available with x-ray eyes ???

 

[GrahamM376]

Our last survey in January snagged undated flexible gas pipes and insurers (Towergate) stipulated they had to be replaced. I also had the surveyor do a rig inspection, up the mast with magnifying glass. Rig is 13 years old and insurers stated they were happy with the report and no replacement required.

The surveyor I used is a hands on guy with lots of practical boat and rig maintenance experience, I didn't want a rigger to inspect as they have a vested interest in selling a new rig.

 

[merlin3688]

Any idea how much standing rigging replacement would cost on a boat of that size? Asking as I am thinking of buying something similar.


A 30' boat would probably have 6mm wires (The Seawolf 30 according to my records has 6mm apart from the backstay which is 5mm) I guess to replace all of the wires including good quality rigging screws (Sta Lok or similar) will set you back between £700 and £800. If it is fitted with a furling gear then the price will depend on which model, Rotostay and Colnbrook will add more to the quote however if a Plastimo then very simple to replace.
The biggest cost is the rigging screws, they do not always need replacing and if this is the case you could save about £30.00 per wire. Just finished a set of rigging for a Moody 34 which had 7 and 8mm wires, total cost was just over £1000.

 

[cliff]

Navigators & general seem pretty good and cheaper than Pants.

+1

 

[Javelin]

We often get asked by a customer to "Check the Rigging"
I'll check it for any obvious signs of fatigue, fraying, staining etc but that is no guarantee which then becomes an issue and the ball is handed unfortunately back into the customers lap.
"Yup looks alright mate but you never can tell......"
The trouble is once the rigging is over 5 years old all the professional riggers we see here won't provide a definite seal of approval either.
So once the question has been officially asked, in our experience we usually have re-new.

Costed up standing rigging today on a 40' ketch with Sta-lok - guide price was £1800 +vat including turnbuckles.
So £900 to £1000 sounds about right.