10% Rule, am i missing something

[lustyd]

I regularly see this 10% rule for maintenance, say if you spend 100k on a boat it will cost you 10k per year to maintain

It's pretty accurate I find, but you have to understand that the rule is 10% to maintain current condition. Condition deteriorates over time regardless of maintenance, and so expectations lower on older boats, lowering costs.

All that to say, it's more about the owner than the boat. Someone who owns a £1M yacht will spend a lot more keeping it nice than someone who owns a £10k yacht in general.

You also have the issue that for a given boat length an item will cost either the square or the cube of the length because for ropes they have to be thicker, and sails have more area and fuel costs relate to tonnage. If you double the boat length, the stainless steel in the winch isn't just doubled. Marinas give you area, not length. Even electrical cables need to be thicker on a longer boat unless the voltage increases but then all the kit gets more expensive!

 

[Bouba]

The worst part is getting the appointment, waiting on your boat....and nobody shows up. Rinse repeat.....in fact that’s when you start calculating how many of those lost days would be better spent deep in the lazaret doing it yourself

 

[lustyd]

Thankfully only the wealthy folk with pricey boats have to wait around. The rest of us practice boat yoga regularly

 

[Momac]

The percentage for running and maintenance increases with time. The boat may more or less maintain its purchase value but all other costs increase with inflation.
Considering my present boat I started with maintenance including mooring fees below the 10% mark and probably above 10% now. But I have only managed this by doing almost all jobs myself since about 2015.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

My mooring fees in a Solent Marina berth are currently just over 10% of the value of the boat, this is a 25 year old 48’ flybridge motor boat. Maintenance, insurance, repairs, upgrades depend on what I’ve done but budget about 5%. I do very little myself, all professional trades. As time passes, these percentages will rise for the reasons Momac has mentioned.

 

[ylop]

True, but how many million-pound boats are there in Oban, and how many in Solent Marinas?

Don't get me wrong, looking at the map, Oban looks like my kind of cruising area, but are there the facilities that a million-pound boat is likely to want?

Sadly a million pounds is not that hard to spend on a boat anymore. 40ft Sirius DS, Moody DS's, brand new mid sized Halberg Rassy tricked out with all the gadgets (electric winches/furlers/multiple plotters/thrusters) for a couple sailing alone, including the VAT etc must all be getting very close to that sort of number? There's not loads of them around but they are there. I don't know what big Mobo's cost, but I suspect there's even more of them which "new today" would be million pound boats. I don't know what facilities a million pound yacht wants? I suspect its not that different to what a £250K yacht wants - and there are plenty of them around.

 

[TiggerToo]

Sounds about right to me.

 

[Mister E]

Leaving aside fixed costs mooring insurance etc. I recon on a boat that is raced then 10% is probably on the low side.
They use expensive sails and matching crew kit isn't cheap.

 

[NC11]

The worst part is getting the appointment, waiting on your boat....and nobody shows up. Rinse repeat.....in fact that’s when you start calculating how many of those lost days would be better spent deep in the lazaret doing it yourself

This has been the my biggest eye opener since owning a boat. As was said it just drives you to get into DIY.

 

[Muddy32]

I suppose you need an idea to justify\persuade,someone else/ yourself/ so it as good as any.

 

[samfieldhouse]

Weirdly, I was doing the maths on this today. I've lived on board for 10 years - somehow I've managed not to make a YouTube channel - but I get really fed up with all the nonsense 'true cost of boat ownership' videos.

The percentage rule is rubbish and probably the wrong way around? The cost of my actual boat is only 12% of what 'boat life' has cost me, when averaged over 10 years.

My personal situation:
£8500 purchase price of boat (1979, 28ft sloop)
£400/month average on 'home' mooring fees (walk-a-shore pontoon with facilities and parking in various south coast marinas)
£12,000 invested in boat maintenance and upgrades (sails, standing rigging, survey, heating, electric, nav, safety, etc...)
£120/year on electricity.

Excludes gas, diesel, provisioning and visitor mooring fees.

So my total outlay over 10 years has been £69,700 or averaged out, £580/month (ish).

 

[Daydream believer]

Weirdly, I was doing the maths on this today. I've lived on board for 10 years - somehow I've managed not to make a YouTube channel - but I get really fed up with all the nonsense 'true cost of boat ownership' videos.

The percentage rule is rubbish and probably the wrong way around? The cost of my actual boat is only 12% of what 'boat life' has cost me, when averaged over 10 years.

My personal situation:
£8500 purchase price of boat (1979, 28ft sloop)
£400/month average on 'home' mooring fees (walk-a-shore pontoon with facilities and parking in various south coast marinas)
£12,000 invested in boat maintenance and upgrades (sails, standing rigging, survey, heating, electric, nav, safety, etc...)
£120/year on electricity.

Excludes gas, diesel, provisioning and visitor mooring fees.

So my total outlay over 10 years has been £69,700 or averaged out, £580/month (ish).

But you have probably bought a well worn older boat that needs a lot of repair work- as shown by the annual £12K bill & the purchase price. I do not think that we are talking about such craft , project boats etc but average reasonable condition vessels in the first place
If you took a well founded vessel it would be a different story. Obviously things drop off each end of the scale beit the top with very expensive boats & owners with deep pockets, or craft at the bottom with high maintenance needs due to age etc.
But even so, You spend £7k PA. If we took a decent 20 or whatever, year old 28ft one at £70K new it comes out at 10%

 

[samfieldhouse]

But you have probably bought a well worn older boat that needs a lot of repair work- as shown by the annual £12K bill & the purchase price.

Nope, £12k over 10 years on maintenance and 'toys'. Which I think is a bargain when you consider the cost of new sails, modern electronics, domestic systems, standing rigging, solar, batteries, etc...
She is a well found boat and was in 'sail away' condition when I bought her, but over that period all boats are going to need maintaining.

I would suggest its more nuanced that a flat 10%. It's the mooring fees that really swing it and that's one's own preference on location, facilities, convenience and boat type.

 

[TiggerToo]

It's the mooring fees that really swing it

especially if it's not a swinging mooring ;-)

 

[Bouba]

Nope, £12k over 10 years on maintenance and 'toys'. Which I think is a bargain when you consider the cost of new sails, modern electronics, domestic systems, standing rigging, solar, batteries, etc...
She is a well found boat and was in 'sail away' condition when I bought her, but over that period all boats are going to need maintaining.

I would suggest its more nuanced that a flat 10%. It's the mooring fees that really swing it and that's one's own preference on location, facilities, convenience and boat type.

I think your starting point as live aboard has got your man maths off to a bad start....The vast savings of not living on land puts you in positive territory before you even start your spreadsheet. Those that are struggling with their bills on land view the outlay on water as additional expense....and it is often shocking

 

[samfieldhouse]

I think your starting point as live aboard has got your man maths off to a bad start....The vast savings of not living on land puts you in positive territory before you even start your spreadsheet. Those that are struggling with their bills on land view the outlay on water as additional expense....and it is often shocking

I completely agree. I've saved a fortune not renting. But living aboard a smallish boat in the UK is a lifestyle choice. As a sailor, my priority is a seagoing vessel, not 'normal' living experience. And that requires compromise, but that in turn means I've been lucky to enjoy a life afloat.

I admit the walkashore has always been luxury and I'm privileged to have been in a position where that's been a realistic proposition.

 

[Supertramp]

Do people who buy £1m yachts really do their own maintenance? My impression, which is mostly around far cheaper boats, is that having the money for that level of boat usually goes with getting someone to do a lot of the jobs (antifouling, rigging, cleaning, etc).

When your time is that valuable you don't want to spend it upside down in a locker instead of sailing.

 

[Bouba]

Do people who buy £1m yachts really do their own maintenance? My impression, which is mostly around far cheaper boats, is that having the money for that level of boat usually goes with getting someone to do a lot of the jobs (antifouling, rigging, cleaning, etc).

When your time is that valuable you don't want to spend it upside down in a locker instead of sailing.

I think that anyone on this forum would....it is a hands on forum....and while it pains me to say it....you don’t get a lot of boat for a million these days

 

[Tranona]

You can make it 10% if that is the figure you want to convince yourself it is "cheap" to run the boat. It all rather depends on what you decide to include in your costs. Do you for example, include the costs of getting to and from the boat? or the snazzy new Mustos you just bought? As already indicated the type of mooring has a big impact on annual fixed costs and is dependent on size, not value of the boat. I changed from a £100k boat to one of essentially the same size worth maybe £30k. Ignoring the refit costs and improvements the unavoidable annual costs, berth, insurance, haulout, antifoul, engine service are virtually the same at £3600pa - so 12% for the cheap boat and 3.6% for the higher value one.

This of course ignores all the other unavoidable costs (the ones that go away if you don't own a boat) such as transport too and from, berthing fees when cruising, club membership fees, wear and tear, replacements and upgrades, some of which are unavoidable and others discretionary, at least in timing.

I shall be giving up owning a boat in probably 2 or 3 years time and i estimate I will be between £5-6k "better off". Rather depressing as it will make IHT more likely to hit when I die. so maybe I should just waste the money by finding another expensive hobby than leave it to the government to waste.

 

[Stemar]

Rather depressing as it will make IHT more likely to hit when I die. so maybe I should just waste the money by finding another expensive hobby than leave it to the government to waste.

Presumably you have someone to leave what's left after HMRC takes its share, so give the extra to them while you've still got seven years of life expectancy, that way the vultures go hungry.