10% Rule, am i missing something

[Power2Sail]

I regularly see this 10% rule for maintenance, say if you spend 100k on a boat it will cost you 10k per year to maintain. But how does this really work. A new yacht for what we are looking for is around 1.2 to 1.5 million, ten year old around 600 to 700K

Is the 10 year old one going to take 60 to 70K to maintain it. But is the new one going to need well over 100k to maintain it. Am I seriously missing something here as this does not seem right at all?

Cheers

 

[Sticky Fingers]

It’s absolute rubbish. You’re not missing anything!

 

[rotrax]

First mate and I have kept two Island Packets for the last 17 years. They were, compared to similar boats of the same age from UK/European builders, expensive.

All maintenance has been carried out by me where possible. For two reasons. If we have to pay yard bills we cant afford the boat. Second, if I fix it/do it I know it is done right.

Fixed costs - mooring, insurance, essential memberships etc are what they are. Haul out/time ashore for antifoul and such is a bit flexible. Parts costs are unknown until out of the water and inspected. Our anodes last 3 seasons. That is good. However, I once had to replace the Ambassador Marine rope cutter. Nearly 700 quid! Ouch! We have done many upgrades, they cost too, but improve the sailing experience.

I dont recognise your figures. If they were correct, I could not afford to sail!

Our boat, currently with a broker, is offered at £180K. It has cost, over the last five years, £10K each year. Mooring, insurance, haul out costs, maintenance parts/antifoul etc. plus adding 400W of Solar power 3 years ago.

It was less when on a swinging mooring. First Mate could not cope as she needed a new hip. We took an alongside walk ashore pontoon berth, walk, decided we would keep it for the convenience. The cost difference was X 4, so a substantial increase.

I hope this helps.

 

[Bouba]

It’s man maths so best not to analyze it too closely....for example if someone pays you to take a boat off their hands, doesn’t mean it’s going to generate 10% of that amount as income.
But as a general rule 10% is probably right

 

[Tranona]

Just a figure plucked out of the air. "maintenance" is commonly used as a catchall word. Much more useful to try an get at annual running costs which can be a mix of fixed and variable costs. Although this can also vary substantially from boat the boat area to area and year to year, it is not in total strongly relate to either the purchase cost or market value of the boat.

 

[Stemar]

It’s man maths so best not to analyze it too closely

Exactly, but it's a useful figure to remind someone who's thinking about buying a boat that buying is the easy bit.

IIRC, the 10% isn't maintenance costs, but total running costs. A new boat at £1M is unlikely to cost £100K to run, but you're likely to spend more to maintain that new condition than the person who buys the same boat at 10 years old and worth £600K. Of course, marina costs will be the same, whatever the age, and I hate to think how much it would cost to park that sort of boat, especially in the Solent

I think it works better on smaller boats of lower value. A friend had a boat worth, maybe, £70K He spent £5K on marina fees, and had her lifted for antifouling and servicing, so 10% probably wasn't far off for him. I had a boat worth about £5K. For a while, she lived on a swinging mooring at £800, so I was well over the 10% until I got a club mooring that cost me an average of £150 a year. Doing most of my own maintenance, over the 18 years I had her, I probably wasn't far off the 10%. Most years, at least once I got the club mooring, a bit below, but then it was time for new standing rigging or new sails, so those years, it was more like 20-30%

 

[Blueboatman]

The new boat enjoys ‘ deferred maintenance status’ until year 10..

Which is why as the saying goes “they all cost the same in the end”.

It’s a maxim or a quip really, to be trotted out to support any old argument either way- new, older) .

You pays yer money and …enjoys the boat

 

[Boathook]

My boat costs about 30% of value each year to run. A lot is fixed cost such as mooring and insurance. Just recently it has been a new engine and sails. If I looked to closely at the costs I wouldn't own / run a boat but charter.
Like a lot of others here i do my own maintenance so that I can afford a boat. I do occasionally look at newer boats but they tend to be a bit bigger and the costs of running it also rise up substantially.

 

[Bouba]

My boat costs about 30% of value each year to run. A lot is fixed cost such as mooring and insurance. Just recently it has been a new engine and sails. If I looked to closely at the costs I wouldn't own / run a boat but charter.
Like a lot of others here i do my own maintenance so that I can afford a boat. I do occasionally look at newer boats but they tend to be a bit bigger and the costs of running it also rise up substantially.

If we looked at all cost and changed our lives accordingly we would be financially better off....starting with the boat, car, house.....chartering, taxiing and renting are probably the best things to do....but we have a desire of ownership, a pride, a need.....these are our inbuilt weaknesses that women exploit.....

 

[andsarkit]

My costs are about 20% but of a much smaller value so the sum is affordable.
Boat new cost goes up roughly as the cube of the length as the volume goes up. Mooring costs are related to length so will be a much greater proportion on a small boat. My swinging mooring is about 12% of boat value and a marina berth would be nearer 50%.
So the answer is it all depends on too many variables.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

If we looked at all cost and changed our lives accordingly we would be financially better off....starting with the boat, car, house.....chartering, taxiing and renting are probably the best things to do....but we have a desire of ownership, a pride, a need.....these are our inbuilt weaknesses that women exploit.....

There are no pockets in shrouds.

 

[Bouba]

There are no pockets in shrouds.

There are widows........

 

[Blueboatman]

I used to reckon- being honest to myself - ouch hurty -that with marina, moorings and insurances and haulouts and wear n tear and breakages and upgrades- you gotta love upgrades all absolutely world saving essentials - and factoring in a layaway number towards the big three- motor/gearbox, mast and rig and extra sails /replacement sails /damaged sails / go faster sails , it could easily hit 15% @ 36ft..

Of course coming in at 8-9% was like hitting happy hour Hic hic

 

[Daydream believer]

Change maintenance costs to running costs & one can easily surpass 10%. Running costs also depend on standard one wishes to keep the vessel to. I service my liferaft every 3 years & am on my second one. I have changed my engine for a new one where the old one could have been reconditioned. But the swop took me 4 weeks instead of 6 months. I regularly renew sails. I change rigging every 10 years. Many have never done so. I have had Coppercoat twice now.
Ihave a mooring which I hardly use except in an emergency but have a marina berth & lay up ashore every year
Take those sort of costs in to account & one can see where the money goes. If I add Clothing, ( I have the best Musto & renew when needed) fuel cost & berthing costs when away (I never anchor)- It is a 31 ft yacht- The cost goes up still more.

I expect that the man with the £million yacht does not have time to crawl underneath getting covered in old paint & will happily employ a professional. He will have all the accessories. He will want decent sails. Typically he will have his engine properly maintained. He will not baulk at a bill for new filters, antifreeze & oil every year. His cost over 5 years will average at least 10%

I do do a lot of jobs myself. But I am critically aware of owners who say that they do the jobs themselves, so they know it is done right.-- In many cases that is a total joke. They should say that they bodge to their limited ability to save cost & damned the consequences.

 

[ylop]

IIRC, the 10% isn't maintenance costs, but total running costs. A new boat at £1M is unlikely to cost £100K to run, but you're likely to spend more to maintain that new condition than the person who buys the same boat at 10 years old and worth £600K. Of course, marina costs will be the same, whatever the age, and I hate to think how much it would cost to park that sort of boat, especially in the Solent

That's proof that even if it is "total running costs" it is pure finger in the air stuff. A marina Berth in the Solent costs about double one near Oban, and a swinging mooring in that part of the world is roughly 1/2 the cost again. So now we have a factor of 4 difference (and you can go cheaper again if its a drying mooring in a less popular area, and you can avoid lifting out in winter etc) between a relatively cheap storage solution in a more affordable (but still desirable area) and the maximum convenience in a very busy area - for the most expensive part of most people's ownership. Similar factors apply if you pay other people to do your antifouling, engine maintainance, running rigging replacement, sail care, polishing etc, versus DIY.

 

[Bouba]

Doing it yourself can cost more in buying necessary tools and physiotherapist consultations.
But one of the biggest drivers of DIY is not being able to get your hands on a professional

 

[capnsensible]

I'm guessing most yachties on here are unaware of the maintenance and running costs of big twin diesel engines.

Frightening.....

 

[Blueboatman]

Doing it yourself can cost more in buying necessary tools and physiotherapist consultations.
But one of the biggest drivers of DIY is not being able to get your hands on a professional

I reckon I used to carry the tools that would build or rebuild the boat .. weight down low not such an intrusion but oh-so-handy when you have to, simply have to do domething
And any decent professional is booked weeks or more ahead and bang there goes your holibobs sitting in some foresaken marina. ( I exaggerate a bit )

 

[Blueboatman]

Are we talking grey funnel or pleasure boats ?
Now, there’s a scale factor I imagine!

 

[Stemar]

That's proof that even if it is "total running costs" it is pure finger in the air stuff. A marina Berth in the Solent costs about double one near Oban, and a swinging mooring in that part of the world is roughly 1/2 the cost again. So now we have a factor of 4 difference (and you can go cheaper again if its a drying mooring in a less popular area, and you can avoid lifting out in winter etc) between a relatively cheap storage solution in a more affordable (but still desirable area) and the maximum convenience in a very busy area - for the most expensive part of most people's ownership. Similar factors apply if you pay other people to do your antifouling, engine maintainance, running rigging replacement, sail care, polishing etc, versus DIY.

True, but how many million-pound boats are there in Oban, and how many in Solent Marinas?

Don't get me wrong, looking at the map, Oban looks like my kind of cruising area, but are there the facilities that a million-pound boat is likely to want?