‘Medicane’ First Hand

RichardS said:
Having read the most recent posts I'm now wondering whether there is anything I said above which might be considered inappropriate? :confused:

Richard
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Richard , my posting wasn't pointing to anything you said , more to the comments made by some that the guy could had done this and that , I think the comment about in a few mins he could had got the sail back on and going and put the kettle on was the last straw for me .
these in my view are from people who really have no ideas about sailing in them condition,
as if they had they wouldn't had made such stupid remakes .
That guy must had been having one hell of a time, and if it was the first time he been caught out in them condition I guess he would be fright for his life , I know the first time we got caught out in a F 9 we was , and everything you read and learned just goes out of the window .
You be too busy trying to do what ever you can to keep the boat afloat , without thinking of something you read some months or years back .

As far as Cutting the sail , it may had been a option but only the skipper at that time can make that decision,
it's not just cutting the sail , all reefing lines had to be remove or cut as well and so had the halyard and outhaul then there the problem of a wave picking the boat and dropping it onto the sail and the chances of it getting caught on the rudder or prop .
Personally it be my last option , I be looking at trying to get it back on board and get everything back under control .
The guy as I sew did the right thing , a small jib give him some control , the op said the guy when to the front and was messing around with his furler , taken a guess I would think he was making sure that both sails couldn't some how unfurl which is some thing I be making sure off ,
It's so easy for people to say he should had done this or that behind their keyboard ,
I know this is just a forum but it seen everytime something like this happen , a yacht goes around or someone get hurt , we looking to push bland .on the skipper . We all expert but the question is experts on what .

One last thing , some will wonder why anyone was out there in them condion .
We checked four forecaster that morning everyone give nothing more then a F5 in the area we was sailing in instead we got a upto 45 kts , at time gust was ? I couldn't tell you we was too busy keeping the yacht sailing under control . It wasn't nice we couldn't go to the heads as it wasn't possible to stay on your feet long enough .
I would had hated to be solo and with an out of control sail , it must had been very scarey for him .
 
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There are times where you feel totally exhausted mentally or/and physically, demoralised, and have had enough and when you feel like that, it is time to ask for help before there is a disaster. Although he appears to be well enough to walk to the bow and back to the cockpit, we do not know, his state of mind at the time. Most of us would have done the same.
 
There is something about this case that reminds me of the rescue of "Satori" by the USCG, twenty-five years ago.

On another sailing forum back in 2000, the owner Ray Leonard came online to discuss what actually happened, rather than the dramatised version presented in the film "The Perfect Storm".

The yacht was caught in a F10 storm. The experienced owner decided to hunker down and ride it out, which was uncomfortable but seemed to be working, apparently confirmed by USCG video taken during the rescue. However he had two novice crew aboard who were desperate to make harbour, which the owner felt inadvisable in the conditions. The owner claimed that he did not know one of them had put out a distress call, as a result of which a USCG helicopter was launched. In a separate incident to another yacht in that storm, a helicopter rescue was botched and a coast-guard drowned, so probably they were nervous (these rescues were conflated in the film). Anyway, most unusually for the USCG, after picking up the crew they ordered Ray Leonard off against his express wish.

After landing he rented a light aircraft to pursue his yacht which he eventually found aground on a sandy beach 100 miles away, and recovered it virtually unharmed. This supported his view that riding it out would have been quite practicable. In the film he was depicted as deluded, which subsequently caused great ill-feeling.

Incidentally, I reported an incident earlier this year where the Greek Coastguard had been called naively, took over and towed in a yacht without the skipper's permission. One can imagine that in the present case towing was not an option and the Greek Coastguard would have made saving a life their priority.
 
And this guy had been through Force 12+, losing his main over the side, now in a mere F10 was supposed to have a nap and put the kettle on !

Has anyone here read ' Left For Dead ' by Nick Ward & Co-writer Sinead O'Brian ?

This gives a very graphic description of what it's like to be left alone in a yacht even in a Force 9...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Left-Dead-Finally-Untold-Fastnet/dp/1408128160
 
Seajet said:
And this guy had been through Force 12+, losing his main over the side, now in a mere F10 was supposed to have a nap and put the kettle on !

Has anyone here read ' Left For Dead ' by Nick Ward & Co-writer Sinead O'Brian ?

This gives a very graphic description of what it's like to be left alone in a yacht even in a Force 9...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Left-Dead-Finally-Untold-Fastnet/dp/1408128160
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This is rather dramatic. Plenty of ocean cruisers will have had experience of force 9 and 10 storms. I've talked to several who have even been through Cat 1 hurricanes. Modern yachts will cope, in open oceans.

The 1979 Fastnet was exceptional (I was out there at the time, though not racing), and there has been much debate about why it was so disasterous, generally attributed to shallow water and the proximity of land. I've read "Left for Dead" - the ordeal of being abandoned injured with a dying man in a boat that is apparently sinking cannot be underestimated - but does not really equate to most yachtsmen's experience of coping with extreme conditions.
 
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Most ' yachtsmen ' thankfully don't get to experience those conditions, nb not much room to run with trailing warps - which I doubt the Fastnet '79 people even knew about, anyone - even the best prepared and it seems the forecast gave no hint - alone in a F12+ is lucky to survive let alone wander around gathring loose sails.

We should be saluting the guy for having a boat & self well prepared enough to survive at all in a F12+, not crtitising him for not putting his legs up with the kettle on !

What next, what blend of tea ?

It would have been a nightmare he and his boat were lucky to survive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHTKMGO0YYw
 
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Thanks for posting - poor chap must have had a horrendous time.

Yes it's a Malo and looks like an early 80's one judging by the relatively narrow stern and lack of plumb bow that seem to be the design for most modern yachts.

We saw Norwegian Star in Split as we were opposite in the Marina on Friday 28th September finishing a weeks charter. Earlier in the week we had 40+ knots blow through (luckily holed up in Palmizana) which both Windfinder and Marine Meteo failed to predict the full extremes of. We listened to the local boatmen on the Sunday night who knew a storm was brewing so were lucky to be forewarned. It's easy to get caught out!
 
sailaboutvic said:
Richard , my posting wasn't pointing to anything you said , more to the comments made by some that the guy could had done this and that , I think the comment about in a few mins he could had got the sail back on and going and put the kettle on was the last straw for me .
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You seem to have taken offence to some of the replies. My own was prefaced with the fact that I don't know the full story nor was I trying to criticise. However, I can assure you that you are not the only sailor to have experienced similar conditions and therefore you cannot simply dismiss everyone comments and opinions as irrelevant. I stand by what I said that, having seen the footage, I am still surprised that there was a need to put out a distress call and certainly a need to abandon the yacht. I am still not trying to criticise the skipper but I am still baffled.
 
I stand by what I said that, having seen the footage, I am still surprised that there was a need to put out a distress call and certainly a need to abandon the yacht. I am still not trying to criticise the skipper but I am still baffled.
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I dont think this necessarily has much to do with your personal experiences. There are probably many very experienced sailors that would not have put out a distress. Have you been involved in much tuition or training of others? I ask because there is a danger of commenting on situations from our own experience. If you have been involved in tuition or training you very quickly realise that your own perception of a situation can be very different from anothers. One might even think that the person should not have been there in the first place and / or was under qualified. Even in the highly regulated and legal currency world of aviation I have seen pilots go to pieces in situations with which they should happily cope and arent that challenging (but of course, as I have said, from my own perspective). Never the less, they do go to pieces. For most sailors I suspect a F8 or more is a challenge, period, add in single handed, things going wrong, becoming scared, self doubt setting in and the whole raft that cause a distress call and I think it is far less of a surprise that you would imagine.

Devil's advocate, and looking at this from a different perspective I know, but thought it worth the observation.
 
Tiger Rag said:
I stand by what I said that, having seen the footage, I am still surprised that there was a need to put out a distress call and certainly a need to abandon the yacht. I am still not trying to criticise the skipper but I am still baffled.
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The footage was after the winds had abated and in the lee of a massive cruise liner, completely different from 70Kts gusting 80.
 
ip485 said:
I dont think this necessarily has much to do with your personal experiences. There are probably many very experienced sailors that would not have put out a distress. Have you been involved in much tuition or training of others? I ask because there is a danger of commenting on situations from our own experience. If you have been involved in tuition or training you very quickly realise that your own perception of a situation can be very different from anothers. One might even think that the person should not have been there in the first place and / or was under qualified. Even in the highly regulated and legal currency world of aviation I have seen pilots go to pieces in situations with which they should happily cope and arent that challenging (but of course, as I have said, from my own perspective). Never the less, they do go to pieces. For most sailors I suspect a F8 or more is a challenge, period, add in single handed, things going wrong, becoming scared, self doubt setting in and the whole raft that cause a distress call and I think it is far less of a surprise that you would imagine.

Devil's advocate, and looking at this from a different perspective I know, but thought it worth the observation.
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That is a very fair point. Whilst I have never officially been an instructor, I have taught dozens of people to sail and you are right that often supposedly strong characters can crumble under pressure. Likewise, I have had quiet and retiring crew come out of their shell and shine in a crisis.

I am probably just being a bit prickly but it annoys me when someone makes a genuine comment (I really do want to know more of the details) but others make wild assumptions, wrongly in my case, and decide that as I wasn't there I cant comment.

Sorry but that is not how things work and it is often better, as you did, to try to ascertain some facts before deciding that someone should be shut out of a discussion.
 
GHA said:
Do you still find it surprising for a boat to put out a distress call in hurricane force winds?

Something I've never experienced so can only guess what the seastate must have been like, must have been horrendous .
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Yes I do still find it surprising, sorry if that annoys you. As I said earlier, the bimini is still up, the dinghy lashed on the foredeck is still there, sails appear undamaged apart from the main coming out of the track by the looks of it. The boat looks in good shape all round and the weather is dying down. I have no doubt that the skipper would be tired but it was only one night and most people perk up when the sun rises so yes am still surprised but would still like to hear his side of events.
 
Tiger Rag said:
Yes I do still find it surprising, sorry if that annoys you. .
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Doesn't annoy at all, it just seems very surprising that someone finds it surprising for a boat to put out a mayday in hurricane force winds.

As mentioned above, once the call was in it looks like the decisions were down to the coastguard.
 
GHA said:
Doesn't annoy at all, it just seems very surprising that someone finds it surprising for a boat to put out a mayday in hurricane force winds.
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Of course people are entitled to make a distress call as and when they see fit. Continually quoting "hurricane force winds" is irrelevant. I would not be surprised if a skipper made a distress call in flat calm conditions if it warranted it just as I would not be surprised to hear that a boat had survived "hurricane force winds" without too much drama and without having made a distress call.

What I am trying (and clearly failing to do) is to say that the boat looks to be in good shape and a decent design. The skipper seems to be up and about and clearly not too badly injured so the decision to abandon the yacht is surprising.
 
Tiger Rag said:
Of course people are entitled to make a distress call as and when they see fit. Continually quoting "hurricane force winds" is irrelevant. I would not be surprised if a skipper made a distress call in flat calm conditions if it warranted it just as I would not be surprised to hear that a boat had survived "hurricane force winds" without too much drama and without having made a distress call.

What I am trying (and clearly failing to do) is to say that the boat looks to be in good shape and a decent design. The skipper seems to be up and about and clearly not too badly injured so the decision to abandon the yacht is surprising.
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Sounds like as soon as the mayday went out the call wasn't his anymore. Hurricane force winds is completely relevant, that's highly likely when the call went out. What the boat looked like the next day is irrelevant, if the coast guard said get off the boat then that's that it seems.

Not in the least surprising really, we weren't there and don't know what happened. And wouldn't really want to find out what 70kts sustained is like in the shallow Med. :eek:
 
Was delivering a Gibsea 96 once going past the south side of Sicily. The winds peaked at around fifty knots but the sea state was flipping horrible.

Went to Malta to dry boat out and drink lager. :)
 
Tiger Rag said:
Yes I do still find it surprising, sorry if that annoys you. As I said earlier, the bimini is still up, the dinghy lashed on the foredeck is still there, sails appear undamaged apart from the main coming out of the track by the looks of it. The boat looks in good shape all round and the weather is dying down. I have no doubt that the skipper would be tired but it was only one night and most people perk up when the sun rises so yes am still surprised but would still like to hear his side of events.
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Im not at all surprise that the dinghy is still on the foredeck or that the Bimini is still up .
So was ours , if you read my posting #21 you will see that there was no signs of the winds Building up for anther 48 hours
The most we got forecaster for that day was a F5 .the only forecaster that give any winds was the super forecaster that gave winds of 15 kts and gust of forty its normal forecaster from the same site give a F 3 , work that one out because I can't ,
all the other three forecaster for that day was as I said , a F5 .
Photos of Sea conditions never seen that bad .
I also wouldn't call the weather dying down as it went on for two more days getting worst by the day .
 
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