Unethical use of a Seagull outboard

[dylanwinter]

As an admirer of Sturmey Archer gears, Singer Sewing machines, Bale knotters, Concord and beam engines I am always amazed and impressed at the simplicity, reliability and power of Seagull outboards.

They are brilliant bits of engineering - astonishing - amazing - wonderful.



I have had an old two stroke in my garage for years - I pulled it out, put some fresh fuel in and fired it up.

It did leave a lot of gunge in the test tank though.

http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/2011-video-logs/ktl-vlog-128-starting-the-seagull/

I had put it in the garage because I used it on the broads for one trip - but I was so worried about the amount of oil and petrol it threw around a sensitive environment that I went out and bought a Honda 2.3 hp four stroke. Great little engine by the way. Sold that with the seafarer trailer sailor I was using at the time.

As a temproary engine for my current MD1 related excitements Al (of Al and Stewie fame) loaned me a four hp seagull as a standby in case the beast gear box finally gave up.

I started it up and it ran okay on the back of the slug - I even sort of liked the noise of it

but Nora!

Seagulls are dirty things.....

I really felt so bad about the thing that I now beleive that they should not be used anywhere outside of a test tank.

I do hope people will not take this too much to heart or abuse me for what is a personal decision

http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/2011-video-logs/ktl-vlog-137-the-unethical-use-of-a-seagull/


Dylan

 

[zalophus]

I'm kind of with you on this. Last winter I started by doing up my old 40 plus for a nephew who wanted to go fishing in an Avon Redcrest (I could see several flaws in this arrangement) and ended up with 3 of the blighters. They're wonderful bits of kit, but you do tend to wind up remembering why modern outboards were invented.

This winter I will be mostly wasting my time performing a top end overhaul on an old motorbike.

 

[sarabande]

has anyone tried running Seagulls on cooking oil in the mixture ? That might a bit friendlier ?

 

[prv]

I think the last bottle of 2-stroke oil I bought (not for an ageing incontinent seabird) claimed to be biodegradable. Is that plausible?

I believe said seabirds also leak grease out of the gearbox - if so, is there a less polluting alternative? Can you pack a 1940s gearbox with lard?

Pete

 

[RivalRedwing]

Dylan

If you can go to the expense of a new fuel tap then any lawnmower shop can supply (or e-bay), it looks like it is the same as that fitted to Suffolk Punch & Colt lawn mowers, size of the outlet pipe is the only variable.

 

[Poignard]

I heard part of a programme on BBC R4 the other day in which one of the contributors indicated that ecologists now have leisure craft engines in their sights and think they are causing a lot of damage to the marine environment.

Maybe it's only a matter of time before we will all have to revert to sail (and oars) and those who bleat about people sailing in confined waters will either have to do the same or give up sailing.

Personally I would find it a great inconvenience not to have an engine in my 28-foot boat but I certainly would not give up sailing if I couldn't have one. Honing old skills and learning new ones would only add to the interest of the sport.

 

[prv]

I heard part of a programme on BBC R4 the other day in which one of the contributors indicated that ecologists now have leisure craft engines in their sights and think they are causing a lot of damage to the marine environment.

Would be nice if they could at least investigate whether their suppositions are correct before acting on them this time.

Pete

 

[doug748]

Like Lazarus back from the shed, I dug out my old Forty Plus last year.

They don't half use a lot of fuel, about twice as much as my 3.5hp Tohatsu in economy mode.

 

[Poignard]

Would be nice if they could at least investigate whether their suppositions are correct before acting on them this time.

Pete

It certainly would be.

I have no way of knowing whether these ecologists' fears are justified or not but they seem to have powerful allies and will probably get their way; right or wrong!

Meanwhile, I'm thinking what I might do with all that handy extra space gained by chucking out the engine, fuel tank, battery, box of engineering tools, spare parts and instruction manuals. Of course I'll have to find room for a pair of oars and a tank of paraffin for the oil lamps.

Maybe they will allow a few small tugs (electrically powered, no doubt) to operate a towing service in busy yachting centres.

 

[dylanwinter]

oil on troubled waters

I heard part of a programme on BBC R4 the other day in which one of the contributors indicated that ecologists now have leisure craft engines in their sights and think they are causing a lot of damage to the marine environment.

Maybe it's only a matter of time before we will all have to revert to sail (and oars) and those who bleat about people sailing in confined waters will either have to do the same or give up sailing.

Personally I would find it a great inconvenience not to have an engine in my 28-foot boat but I certainly would not give up sailing if I couldn't have one. Honing old skills and learning new ones would only add to the interest of the sport.

five years ago I took my little trailer sailer up the Percuil River in Cornwall. Bounced up with the tide then let the water run out and sat there watching the birds for the low tide.

It was a bank holiday monday after a busy sunny bank holiday weekend.

When the tide came back it arrived with a lot of oil patches on it.

The wind was blowing up the river and the first water came back up a fairly narrow channel

it had clearly concentrated the surface pollution into a very narrow space

but it was depressing to see how much oily stuff came back.

It did not look like diesel - but much more like oil and petrol patches

It is hard to guess but I would say that for the first 20 minutes of the tide about ten percent of the surface was oil.

Not good

Dylan

 

[Poignard]

And if you weren't allowed an engine would you still keep a boat? I'll bet you would; and get just as much pleasure out of it.

 

[Burnham Bob]

my seagull used to run on a mix of 10:1 which wasn't eco friendly. it now runs on 25:1 courtesy of a new needle from John at Saving Old Seagulls. for the minimal use it gets, i think its age and the fact that it will keep going forever with a bit of care and attention means that overall its carbon footprint over its last forty years and the future will in the aggregate be pretty minimal as opposed to the manufacture, transport and fuel burnt of a new outboard with a life of ten years.

that's my excuse for sticking with the seagull anyway!

 

[dylanwinter]

that is all true

my seagull used to run on a mix of 10:1 which wasn't eco friendly. it now runs on 25:1 courtesy of a new needle from John at Saving Old Seagulls. for the minimal use it gets, i think its age and the fact that it will keep going forever with a bit of care and attention means that overall its carbon footprint over its last forty years and the future will in the aggregate be pretty minimal as opposed to the manufacture, transport and fuel burnt of a new outboard with a life of ten years.

that's my excuse for sticking with the seagull anyway!

but its not really the carbon footprint that is the issue - although it is obviously important as well

it is the petrol and oil mix that you dribble out of the carb before starting and then the oil that ends up in the water from the partially burned fuel

both seagulls in the films run at 25:1



the evinrude runs at 50 to 1

http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/2011-video-logs/ktl-vlog-129-starting-evinrude/




but it is still less efficient - two strokes always leave unburbned fuel and oil in the exhaust gas

four strokes can burn pretty clean

still a carbon footprint.

of course a few rops from a seagull compared to the amount of stuff that comes down the Nene from Northampton, Peterborough and Wisbech it is tiny

I still feel guilty though

Dylan

Dylan

 

[Cymrogwyllt]

Seagulls are evil. They queue up on the roofs of shops and as soon as someone walks out of a shop with food in their hand it's dive, dive, dive. Winged muggers. Shotguns are not good enough for them.

 

[CalicoJack]

Pollution

I admire your views on your Seagull, and two stroke outboards, you are of course correct. They do pollute, there is no way round it BUT....

Most coastal towns still pump their sewerage into the sea. Oh yes they treat it ie they mash it up into tiny particals and remove material which has not come out of the human body. Then they add tons of bleach to it, to kill the smell, and then they pump it out into the sea via long sea outfalls so that it has the chance to dilute before it comes into contact with the beach.

So accepting that two wrongs don't make a right, as my mother always seemed to be saying, whats a few drops of oil/petrol mix compared to tons of sewage and gallons of bleach?

 

[paulm299]

my seagull used to run on a mix of 10:1 which wasn't eco friendly. it now runs on 25:1 courtesy of a new needle from John at Saving Old Seagulls.

Do you know if you can get a needle for a British Anzani ?

 

[dylanwinter]

you speak sense

I admire your views on your Seagull, and two stroke outboards, you are of course correct. They do pollute, there is no way round it BUT....

Most coastal towns still pump their sewerage into the sea. Oh yes they treat it ie they mash it up into tiny particals and remove material which has not come out of the human body. Then they add tons of bleach to it, to kill the smell, and then they pump it out into the sea via long sea outfalls so that it has the chance to dilute before it comes into contact with the beach.

So accepting that two wrongs don't make a right, as my mother always seemed to be saying, whats a few drops of oil/petrol mix compared to tons of sewage and gallons of bleach?

what you say is certainly true -

if you look at my films of the thames where I saw the thames bubblers in action

or look at the outfalls on the Colne, the Ore and the Nene

and to smell the nene at certain states of the tide

seaguls do only contribute a lliteral drop; in the ocean.

and the slug has its very own loo of last resort and even by using the town and pub loos in wisbech I also contribute to the tons of sewage and bleach.

However, I think that the cost to me of not putting that odd drop of unburned oil and petrol from a museum peice of an outboard into the fragile environment of the wash is very small

The 2.3 hp Honda is almost as powerful as the 4hp seagull - and all it does is to throw some greenhoouse gasses into the air - fewer gasses than the seagull

In this case doing the ethical thing is costing me very little

so that is what I shall do.

KTL is an environmental disaster with all the miles I am driving - but I usually use a one litre polo.

Forgive me for I am a hypocrit

but I try to minimise my hypocrisy

Dylan

 

[electrosys]

Ok - in defence of Seagulls ...

Dribbling 2-stroke mix from the carb float chamber - with care this can be minimal.

Leaking fuel tap - fix it. It's a lot cheaper than losing fuel. Boil the cork, or simply replace it.

Losing oil from the gearbox - if you fit a V-seal to the prop shaft, then it will only leak a microscopic amount of oil when the clutch is engaged. During running, there will be (or should be) no leaks from 'down there'. [sounds like an advert for Tena-Lady ...]

Noise - block up the exhaust tube holes. Fit a water-injection pipe (like the model 102's) if you're a perfectionist. Difficult starting due to 'back-pressure'/ excessive immersion etc, is a myth. I've proved it by experimentation.

Smoke - so what ? What's the problem with burning a bit of oil. Diesels do it all the time. A Seagull may burn a pint of oil a year - how many gallons of diesel oil does the average yacht burn every trip ? And as for diesels on the road ....

When a stern greaser is turned, and another blob of grease enters the stuffing box - where do you think that stuff finally ends up ? Shall we start talking about banning stern greasers ?

In conclusion - let's not forget that oil and petrol are natural substances, which were created from decaying marine life. And as such they are biodegradable. Although we call a small bloom on the water's surface 'pollution' - I'm not sure that's fair - it is simply a sign: that what came from the ocean has finally returned from whence it came.

So c'mon - let's keep this in perspective.

 

[dylanwinter]

Correct on all counts

Ok - in defence of Seagulls ...

Dribbling 2-stroke mix from the carb float chamber - with care this can be minimal.

Leaking fuel tap - fix it. It's a lot cheaper than losing fuel. Boil the cork, or simply replace it.

Losing oil from the gearbox - if you fit a V-seal to the prop shaft, then it will only leak a microscopic amount of oil when the clutch is engaged. During running, there will be (or should be) no leaks from 'down there'. [sounds like an advert for Tena-Lady ...]

Noise - block up the exhaust tube holes. Fit a water-injection pipe (like the model 102's) if you're a perfectionist. Difficult starting due to 'back-pressure'/ excessive immersion etc, is a myth. I've proved it by experimentation.

Smoke - so what ? What's the problem with burning a bit of oil. Diesels do it all the time. A Seagull may burn a pint of oil a year - how many gallons of diesel oil does the average yacht burn every trip ? And as for diesels on the road ....

When a stern greaser is turned, and another blob of grease enters the stuffing box - where do you think that stuff finally ends up ? Shall we start talking about banning stern greasers ?

In conclusion - let's not forget that oil and petrol are natural substances, which were created from decaying marine life. And as such they are biodegradable. Although we call a small bloom on the water's surface 'pollution' - I'm not sure that's fair - it is simply a sign: that what came from the ocean has finally returned from whence it came.

So c'mon - let's keep this in perspective.

Everything you say is true and perfectly expressed

I agree on all countsd

and you are correct - perspective is everything

human beings, whatever we do, are dirty b*$tards

the whole stern gland thing does bother me too


Dylan

 

[electrosys]

[...] the whole stern gland thing does bother me too
Dylan

Dylan - how about looking at this as a trade-off ?

Ok - so you are adding a miniscule amount of 'pollution' (could debate that, as previously mentioned) to the environment ... so let's call that a negative impact on the world.

But what positive impacts are you creating at the same time ?

I haven't seen any of your film clips myself (computer dates from the days of steam-power, and hangs if it encounters anything half-way modern), but I know many here have, do, and are looking forward to future instalments. I'd say you're providing a valuable public service, with the positive impact far outweighing the negative one.

All-in-all, I'd say that the scales balance in your favour ... so sleep easy.