Twin Electric! Salona Yachts

[lustyd]

So, who's seen it? I realise it's a sales video, but damn if that's not the most useful review of a yacht I've seen lately.

Two electric motors with regen which produced nearly 1KW each on a beam reach at 8.5kt.
Twin motors allowing better manoevring.

If this is a glimpse of the future it's definitely got my attention. If I can get sufficient charge from a day sail to motor back easily this may be an option before long. Especially love how the engine compartment is now a battery compartment!

 

[roblpm]

OK just watched. Amazing system. And the Umas are real experts in this area.

However.......

Just looked at the Oceanvolt prices. I'm afraid its going to be in my next life!

 

[lustyd]

I will confess I am ignoring the price right now. Between California and Puget Sound prices will drop as these become mainstream. Right now I'm focusing on the fact this might actually be a viable future, possibly even a better future looking at the regen capability. 2KW of solar would take up a lot of deck space!

 

[wully1]

Fat arse boat. X
Twin wheels. X
Sharp edge IKEA interior. X
Crap nav station. X

Cost. X

Leccy System. Y

Interesting boat that will be the first of many - if the cost comes down. If I had the money it would be very near the bottom of my list though.

 

[geem]

So, who's seen it? I realise it's a sales video, but damn if that's not the most useful review of a yacht I've seen lately.

Two electric motors with regen which produced nearly 1KW each on a beam reach at 8.5kt.
Twin motors allowing better manoevring.

If this is a glimpse of the future it's definitely got my attention. If I can get sufficient charge from a day sail to motor back easily this may be an option before long. Especially love how the engine compartment is now a battery compartment!

The bloke in the green tee short at the end was spouting utter bowlocks! ‘Electric motor makes then a better sailor!’ Tosh! ‘Never needing to go ashore except for food’ tosh! A full tank of diesel lasts us a season and some. ‘don't need a bow thruster to go in a marina’ we don't have one and rarely go in a marina. Its all sales bollox! How would you motor this boat up the Intercoastal water way? Crossing the Atlantic and you lose the wind for a few days? It happened to us. Just sit there and wallow? Its your only option. Transit the Panama Canal. You need to be able to maintain 6kts all day.
This lecky boat has a very limited market. It would never make it on to my boat or people using their boats in a similar manner to us

 

[Robih]

To be honest I don’t get the electric boating strategy - the amount of diesel that most yachts use in a season is tiny. We refill once each year and use about 150L. What’s the point? Much better investing the time and money in to motor boating to make those vessels more efficient surely? Or some other leisure pursuit which consume a significant amount of fossil fuels, there are plenty to choose from. Aside from that point I really must be getting old because the interior of that boat is truly awful, can’t imagine buying anything like that, but maybe if one lives in a 50sqm flat in an urban environment it is a home from home, I don’t get it at all. And as for the chart table - oh dear.....

 

[lustyd]

So did you guys even watch the video? Your posts read as if you just came here to tell us how you KNOW electric is a bad idea. Arguing that a coastal cruiser isn't good in canals made me smile though, next you'll tell us that narrowboats aren't great for ocean crossings! If you had watched the video you'd realise these are better than diesel for long journeys, because a few hours sailing will "refill the tank" and you can also fit solar panels as well so if you only sail every other day you can motor in between. A diesel will give you maybe 3 days before you're left wallowing permanently. You may not need a bow thruster, but it's nice to have one for awkward berths and weather, and regardless this setup is an improvement and makes the boat nearly silent while under power. He's right that this will make you a better sailor - sailors don't go through the canal, they SAIL! Far from limited market, this is squarely aimed at the majority of the coastal cruiser market who exit a marina, sail for a few hours and then enter a marina/anchorage. It's a tiny, tiny percentage of boats that cross oceans, use canals, or even make longer trips. @Robih part of the point is that Diesel is filthy, the engine is oily and needs all kinds of maintenance, and most of all is loud and takes up space on board. This boat is quiet and clean and requires significantly less maintenance, and that maintenance is simpler. What's not to like? If you don't use a tank in a season then it's unlikely range on this will be an issue for you. Of perhaps you enjoy changing fluids and filters and worrying about bugs?

@wully1 yes the interior troubled me too, it looked very sharp at the edges and that splashback is utilitarian at best. The same can be said of the interior of a Tesla though, and exterior come to think of it. Nobody would argue that Tesla hasn't changed the car industry though, and in 10 years we'll probably look at these as the real starting point of electric boat revolution.

 

[Robih]

So did you guys even watch the video? Your posts read as if you just came here to tell us how you KNOW electric is a bad idea. Arguing that a coastal cruiser isn't good in canals made me smile though, next you'll tell us that narrowboats aren't great for ocean crossings! If you had watched the video you'd realise these are better than diesel for long journeys, because a few hours sailing will "refill the tank" and you can also fit solar panels as well so if you only sail every other day you can motor in between. A diesel will give you maybe 3 days before you're left wallowing permanently. You may not need a bow thruster, but it's nice to have one for awkward berths and weather, and regardless this setup is an improvement and makes the boat nearly silent while under power. He's right that this will make you a better sailor - sailors don't go through the canal, they SAIL! Far from limited market, this is squarely aimed at the majority of the coastal cruiser market who exit a marina, sail for a few hours and then enter a marina/anchorage. It's a tiny, tiny percentage of boats that cross oceans, use canals, or even make longer trips. @Robih part of the point is that Diesel is filthy, the engine is oily and needs all kinds of maintenance, and most of all is loud and takes up space on board. This boat is quiet and clean and requires significantly less maintenance, and that maintenance is simpler. What's not to like? If you don't use a tank in a season then it's unlikely range on this will be an issue for you. Of perhaps you enjoy changing fluids and filters and worrying about bugs?

@wully1 yes the interior troubled me too, it looked very sharp at the edges and that splashback is utilitarian at best. The same can be said of the interior of a Tesla though, and exterior come to think of it. Nobody would argue that Tesla hasn't changed the car industry though, and in 10 years we'll probably look at these as the real starting point of electric boat revolution.

Lusty,

I take your point that Diesel engines are not the most pleasant of bedfellows onboard but surely our technological giants should focus on HGVs that consume diesel at 3mpg and do 50k miles per year? We need the biggest possible environmental advantage from this fabulous new leccy technology......

 

[lustyd]

Why do you still think this thread is about the environment?

 

[Robih]

Why do you still think this thread is about the environment?

Okay, sorry, I’ll shut up.

 

[lustyd]

My point was, ignore the environment and look at the advantage of having 2KW of electric generation on board before even adding solar. The advantage of twin props while using less space in the boat. It's possible to remove the engine compartment entirely and have a better boat layout. Running a fridge and freezer 24x7 without worry. Never running out of fuel as long as you sail now and then. Running a water maker while under sail without a droning engine on for two hours. Swapping your tools and spares locker for a wine rack because you don't need most of the tools or the spares.

Add to that, the boat was easily sailing at 8.5kt while generating 2KW. It might be ugly but it seems like a quick boat to sail! Prices will come down as "man in green" takes it to California and Seattle. Techies will all want one and that'll make it accessible for the rest of us eventually, just like Tesla. The Oceanvolt motor isn't expensive because it's complex it's because they probably make 100 a year right now. If they made 10,000 then it probably wouldn't cost much more than the alternator on your Diesel.

 

[Ningaloo]

Love it all. The basic boat is about €250k and the electric "option" adds about €70k. So at the moment it is still a fairly high cost extra, but I imagine much of this is the battery cost which will decrease as we get the benefits from automotive research flowing through to boats.
I agree with all that is said about it making you a better sailor, in the sense that you decide to sail rather than motor. However this is pretty much my approach anyway and I still manage to do about 100 engine hours a season (2,500Nm) some of which will be for battery charging. I didn't see what the range was, but I guess I'd want at least 12 hours motor capability.
Oh - and for those that aren't used to sailing a 21st century boat - its a COFFEE table, not a chart table.

I started this post about the new ePropulsion EVO which is a 3hp equivalent outboard with regen capability - 200W at 8kts so I think there is certainly a trend towards fully electric propulsion. The thing about hydrogenerators is that thee output is exponential so for faster boats the power available is phenomenal.

 

[Neeves]

To me the interior was a typical 'current' generation of yacht. No character, looks as if it was built and installed by a machine, all the doors perfectly aligned etc etc. They all look very similar (and plastic)

Surely that is not the point of the yacht. It is implied the point of the yacht is to show off 'green electric power'

I got to 15 minutes of a 30 minute video and was bored to tears and have left the second half till later. But there has been little mention in the first half of 'green electric power' - which seems ..... disapppointing.

But if you want to manoeuvre with 2, motors, electric or otherwise - they are better further apart and that needs a catamaran....which would have more room for solar (but the vid has not got to the 'green electric power' .....yet

As a promotional film - it left me cold

Jonathan

 

[AngusMcDoon]

.

 

[geem]

So did you guys even watch the video? Your posts read as if you just came here to tell us how you KNOW electric is a bad idea. Arguing that a coastal cruiser isn't good in canals made me smile though, next you'll tell us that narrowboats aren't great for ocean crossings! If you had watched the video you'd realise these are better than diesel for long journeys, because a few hours sailing will "refill the tank" and you can also fit solar panels as well so if you only sail every other day you can motor in between. A diesel will give you maybe 3 days before you're left wallowing permanently. You may not need a bow thruster, but it's nice to have one for awkward berths and weather, and regardless this setup is an improvement and makes the boat nearly silent while under power. He's right that this will make you a better sailor - sailors don't go through the canal, they SAIL! Far from limited market, this is squarely aimed at the majority of the coastal cruiser market who exit a marina, sail for a few hours and then enter a marina/anchorage. It's a tiny, tiny percentage of boats that cross oceans, use canals, or even make longer trips. @Robih part of the point is that Diesel is filthy, the engine is oily and needs all kinds of maintenance, and most of all is loud and takes up space on board. This boat is quiet and clean and requires significantly less maintenance, and that maintenance is simpler. What's not to like? If you don't use a tank in a season then it's unlikely range on this will be an issue for you. Of perhaps you enjoy changing fluids and filters and worrying about bugs?

@wully1 yes the interior troubled me too, it looked very sharp at the edges and that splashback is utilitarian at best. The same can be said of the interior of a Tesla though, and exterior come to think of it. Nobody would argue that Tesla hasn't changed the car industry though, and in 10 years we'll probably look at these as the real starting point of electric boat revolution.

The test boat was a 46 footer. My boat is smaller but in flat calm conditions she will do 1000nm on the engine. Where do you get 3 days from?
Sailors do go through the Panama Canal. They motor. Thats the rule. Sailors do go up the ICW. Not us as our draft is too deep and air draft too high. You simply don't understand long distance cruising if you think this 46ft boat with lecky motor is the future

 

[lustyd]

My boat is smaller but in flat calm conditions she will do 1000nm on the engine. Where do you get 3 days from?

24 x 3 = 72 hours. 2 litres per hour = 144 which is roughly the size of an average diesel tank. Fuel is generally measured in hours for boats, but yes on mine that works out about 1000NM. Far short of the infinite miles possible on the boat in question...

Also, where did anyone say long distance cruising? That represents a tiny portion of the sailing community. That said Uma is a long distance cruiser and is electric. They've done pretty well so far and their boat is infinitely less good than the one shown.

 

[lustyd]

It is implied the point of the yacht is to show off 'green electric power'

No, the point of the company the man in green works for is green electric. The yacht is not theirs, although they do own it. They are a distributor for North America for Salona from what I can see.

The video does cover the manoevring and they dive to show the position. They are very far apart and (seem to) work nicely for manoevring. Personally I think they'd be better moved forward to either side of the keel as well, and we may see this in future as twin motors become common.

 

[geem]

24 x 3 = 72 hours. 2 litres per hour = 144 which is roughly the size of an average diesel tank. Fuel is generally measured in hours for boats, but yes on mine that works out about 1000NM. Far short of the infinite miles possible on the boat in question...

Also, where did anyone say long distance cruising? That represents a tiny portion of the sailing community. That said Uma is a long distance cruiser and is electric. They've done pretty well so far and their boat is infinitely less good than the one shown.

Its a 46ft boat. It should be capable of long distance cruising. That also mean ability to engine long distance if the needs arises. My diesel tank is 500litres. 2.5 litres per hour means 8.3 days at 5 kts. Those that cruise long distance on diesel powered yachts that dont have a large enough tank carry diesel cans on deck for trips like the West to East Atlantic crossing. Many yachts this season had light head winds and motored for several days. Your electric boat would be useless on this trip

 

[lustyd]

Oh it is capable of long distance, you're just ignoring everything about how it goes about that for some reason. You can do 8.3 days of constant motoring, these can do infinite days of motoring as long as you have some sailing or sunshine between those days. Your boat has a modern late generation diesel system while this has a first generation system. Onve your diesel is gone it's gone and you're stranded until you get more, when the battery drains on this it will recharge using the magic of nature. Your 8.3 days will be utter misery with noise and vibration....but you've probably already started typing your predictable response about why one specific use case that you absolutely must have will be the downfall of this whole technology. Meanwhile the rest of us are excited to see this advancement

 

[Tomahawk]

Only space for five wine bottles... so clearly not enough..

Yes I did watch the important bit