putting my sails in the washing machine?

[Burnham_Bob]

putting my sails in the washing machine?

Normally at the end of the season I rinse the sails in the bath to get rid of the salt and hnag them out to dry. As the boat is only 23ft the sails aren't huge.

We now have a new washing machine which has a rinse only cycle and a 'no heat' setting. Anyone know why I shouldn't rinse the sails in the machine, let the spin cycle take most of the water off them (in the bath they stay wet and drip all the way to the back door!) and then hang them out to dry?

Actually, they could do with a proper wash - especially the genoa - anyone know if a wash on very low heat - or no heat - would affect the sails at all?

 

[VicS]

Re: putting my sails in the washing machine?

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone know why I shouldn't rinse the sails in the machine, let the spin cycle take most of the water off them

[/ QUOTE ]
Because f SWMBO sees you you'll be blamed for anything that goes wrong with the machine for the rest of its life and beyond. With a new machine as well I wouldn't dare.

Take them to the Launderette when there is no attendant, wash them on the lowest temperature wash and dry them on minimum heat after an initial hot burst. But make sure someone else hasn't just washed horse blankets!

 

[Neil_M]

Re: putting my sails in the washing machine?

Personally I wouldn't risk it, given the cost of sails (and washing machines). If they're salty either hose them on the boat & dry loose footed up the mast or give them a luke warm bath at home. If they're grubby it's worth a trip to the local loft who could clean them flat and store them for the winter as well - not too expensive.

 

[Lakesailor]

Re: putting my sails in the washing machine?

If you have a luff rope (real rope) don't even think about it.
Pillock I bought a dinghy from had done just that and the luff rope on the main shrank (is that a word?)
Sail looked a mess and wouldn't set properly, so I had to have it 'attended' to by a local sailmaker.

 

[PatrickB]

Re: putting my sails in the washing machine?

I wash my spinnaker in the washing machine (on the 'silk' cycle) with no ill effects, but of course that is a much lighter fabric than a white sail. My boat is smaller than yours, but I wouldn't put any of the white sails in the machine - too heavy apart from anything else.

 

[PIGLETSDREAM]

Re: putting my sails in the washing machine?

I think you deserve a medal for even thinking that you might get away with the idea. If her indoors hasn't twigged, I would go down to your shed and mark the result on the wall and have a can of beer whilst you are there. Little victories like that will be few and far between.

 

[dwarwick]

Re: putting my sails in the washing machine?

washing machine loading door stationary + drum and sail doing whatever rpm on spin = plenty of damage especially to luff
Been there!
Other side of coin, gained experience in sail repairs.

 

[arTThur]

Re: putting my sails in the washing machine?

Hi Bob,

I have just paid nearly £200 to have my sails 'valeted' and I am sure the sailmaker uses a washing machine, although it is probably an industrial sized one.
They were new and very stiff before the 'valet' and have now come back quite soft and feel almost like cotton in comparision to before the wash. So I would be careful about doing it yourself without the proper knowledge.

arTThur

 

[Quiddle]

Re: putting my sails in the washing machine?

I washed a Laser sail in a machine once and ruined it. It (the sail became limp and shapeless. I would not chance it.

 

[Boathook]

Re: putting my sails in the washing machine?

Depending on the sail I would of thought that the machine would knock the 'filler' out of the sail material. It would then not trap the wind ruining performance. Hopefully, I am taking my sails in for cleaning etc to the sail maker tomorrow, the first time in their 10 year life ...

 

[Guest]

Re: putting my sails in the washing machine?

Wouldn't it be easier, cheaper and more effective just to burn the dirt off? A spot of petrol sprinkled over it first helps the process to go with a bit of an ooomph.

 

[2Tizwoz]

Re: putting my sails in the washing machine?

Gave mine an overnight soak in a plastic barrel of lukewarm water non-biological washing powder. Pulled them up a tree in the garden and rinsed them with a hose pipe. Brightened and softened them up considerably. No obvious damage.

I find a soak in detergent is very effective for a number of things - the stainless teapot returns to new again.

 

[Slow_boat]

Re: putting my sails in the washing machine?

I've trampled on sails in a bath of lukewarm water with washing powder then hosed them down with a hose before now. It seemed to work but my feet went very soft and wrinkly!

I was an apprentice sailmaker in the '70s and can confirm that we used to send sails off to a laundry for washing.

As for the softening of the cloth and loss of 'filler', try painting FABSEAL tent waterproofer on them. It used to work with older dacron sails but I'm not sure about the stiffer,more modern cloths.

 

[charles_reed]

Re: putting my sails in the washing machine?

When I had a little boat I used to use our top-loader - this, of course, got indigestion and resulted in a very frosty reception from the wife and an extended period of self-abnegation, before replacing the machine.

Since then boat and sails have got larger and washing machine drums smaller.

If the sailcloth is good quality the loss of filler is negligible - use warm wash, no detergent and a slow spin. Drying them can be a problem.

I used to have a tame sailwasher in the Hamble but he gave it up and went to Australia - since then I've piggy-backed on my sailmaker's washes, used a commercial washing company (they have 40kg drums) and used a pressure washer.

Whenever one does it oneself you have the same challenge - how the hell do you dry 1 88m2 spinnaker never mind 3.

 

[toolarts]

Re: putting my sails in the washing machine?

I would not put either a nylon or dacron sail through a washing machine.

It is probably the worst thing you can do to a dacron/terylene sail, other than setting it on fire.

There are two main steps to making dacron sailcloth. First the fibers are twisted into yarn and woven into cloth sheets. Then the sheet is sent to a company that "finishes" the sail. Before the finishing process, the sail is porous and soft like natural cloth, though much more tightly woven.

In the finishing process, the raw cloth is scoured for several hours in soap and hot water solution and then dried.

Then, heat is applied to the cloth to shrink it, reducing the size of the pores between the yarns.

Then, the sail is impregnated and coated with urethane resin which fills all spaces and strengthens the interlock of the weave.

The purpose of the finishing step is to minimize bias elongation, the major instability of any woven fabric.

After the cloth has been resinated, it is passed over drums heated to 400 degrees F to cure the resins and shrink the cloth as much as 20%.

It is then calendered and ironed between steel rollers that exert 50 tons of heated compression. This flattens and tightens the weave and locks the fibers.

The finish will be irreparably damaged by putting it through a washing machine, and without the finish to reduce bias elongation, you will have a sail that is more like a bag, and certainly worthless in terms of performance.

No repectable sailmaker would ever put a sail through any kind of washing machine. What we will do is lay the sail out flat on a clean, smooth surface and rinse and then gently scrub the dacron sail with a mild soap solution. For mildew stains, one can use houshold bleach, diluted, but rinsing completely is an absolute must. After a thorough rinse, the sail must be dried thoroughly in air and then it can be flaked and retuned.

The finishing process also typically adds UV inhibitors to the sail cloth, and any rough treatment or harsh chemicals, especially those that lower the PH, can damage the UV inhibitors. Therefore, again, rinsing is a must, and air drying to prevent mildew.

Regarding nylon spinnakers and bloopers, the washing machine will damage and break fibers, and it will very likely destroy any UV inhibitors that have been added to the fabric in the finishing process. You will weaken your sail and leave it totally exposed to UV damage.

If your sail is so far gone that you don't think it will make any difference, then you are missing much of the fun of sailing.
Get new sails, you won't believe what you are missing!

The best thing you can do for your sails is to treat them gently when they are handed, and rinse all salt water off them after every sail, and then air dry them before putting them away.

Then at the end of the season, clean them as above, rinse and dry them.

 

[charles_reed]

Interesting ;-)

that there is a thriving industry washing sails, used by sailmakers.

Perhaps they haven't had the benefit of your professional advice.

 

[toolarts]

Re: Interesting ;-)

You bet! There are lots of sailmakers out there and lots of sail washing services. The best ones soak the sails in a vat of water and mild soap solution and the drip dry the sail, then rinse and drip dry it again. This is an excellent way to clean a sail and remove all traces of salt.

And I know of a small number that put dacron sails into a large commercial washing machine without an agitator. I think this is a mistake. No matter how blatant they are about the fact that they do it and no matter what they claim about how it doesn't harm the fabric, it does. As far as I am concerned, they are just increasing their throughput at the expense of the bias strength of the sail cloth and the stitching.

God, I can't imagine anyone would believe this is a good idea. Sailcloth is extremely hard, and because of this, sail stitching is ALWAYS completely proud of the cloth. Even a non-agitating machine would wear at the stitching in the broadseams mercelessly in the spin cycle. There just isn't anything good about this.

I do think you could get away with washing nylon sails in a machine if it had no agitator and a gentle spin cycle, but that is about it.

Perspective: Will you take your 1 season old $2000 jib to one of those places and have them wash it in their machine? Why not?

And if I wouldn't do that with a new sail, I wouldn't do it with an older one either, because I want to preserve as much of the life of the sail as possible, no matter how old it is.

There are lots and lots of sail lofts that will soak and gently clean the sail without a machine. If I would prefer to take my new sail there, then what would be the reasoning behind taking an older one somewhere else? If the sail is so shot that I don't care about preserving bias strength any more, well, washing it ain't going to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

I am a professional sailmaker, but I am not trying to sell sails.
I feel sorry for all the poor shmos who can barely afford a boat and then are stuck with the original rags that came with it because they can't afford new sails.

Piece of advice: Check out Sailrite. I don't work for them, and I have no business interest in them. But you can buy the materials for a new sail and sew it together yourself, and for a jib for a 27' boat, you would probably be talking about $500 - $600. They even sell a nice little portable walking-foot sewing machine that will sew your sails together. That is how I made my first few sails, and I was flabbergasted at how easy it was...and how the new dacron improved my performance.

And there is nothing like making a sail to help you understand what a sail is all about and how it is constructed---and to give you a feel for how they work. Every sailor should make at least one.

And of course, once you make your own, you won't even THINK about turning it over to someone who washes it in any kind of machine.