Is Greece Being Premature

[grumpygit]

Greece has announced it is allowing the retail sector to start opening from Monday. Do you think this is a premature move bearing what other countries are (not) allowing. Up to now only a miniscule of folk has be inoculated or do you think it's asking for future problems?

 

[De.windhoos]

Cost of lockdown seen pushing retail reopening, Stavros Papantoniou | Kathimerini
Greece is still a poor country and 3 billion/month is something they simply can't afford for a long time, even using the EU emergency funds.
Also they are going to use "Click & Collect" essentially online shopping with the ability to pick it up at the shop. The Netherlands is using the same method for DYI shops.
Hairdressers only through appointment.
So it's a very small relaxation of the lockdown, also don't forget they are in very strict lockdown since November and there is only so much a society can handle. They are raising the fines to 500Eu, which is a lot for most Greeks
Also, the numbers in Greece are pretty good compared to a lot of other countries in Europe.

 

[Mistroma]

Cost of lockdown seen pushing retail reopening, Stavros Papantoniou | Kathimerini
Greece is still a poor country and 3 billion/month is something they simply can't afford for a long time, even using the EU emergency funds.
Also they are going to use "Click & Collect" essentially online shopping with the ability to pick it up at the shop. The Netherlands is using the same method for DYI shops.
Hairdressers only through appointment.
So it's a very small relaxation of the lockdown, also don't forget they are in very strict lockdown since November and there is only so much a society can handle. They are raising the fines to 500Eu, which is a lot for most Greeks
Also, the numbers in Greece are pretty good compared to a lot of other countries in Europe.

I'm pretty certain that the Greek case rate per 100,000 over a week was about 45 about 5-6 days ago when UK was greater than 600. About 1/3 of the population lives near Athens and population density is pretty low in other areas. I can see why they might choose to risk opening things up a little. I believe that the lockdown rules were much stricter than UK rules and most people actually followed them (e.g. prior permission required to leave home for much of the time).

 

[grumpygit]

Cost of lockdown seen pushing retail reopening, Stavros Papantoniou | Kathimerini
Greece is still a poor country and 3 billion/month is something they simply can't afford for a long time, even using the EU emergency funds.
Also they are going to use "Click & Collect" essentially online shopping with the ability to pick it up at the shop. The Netherlands is using the same method for DYI shops.
Hairdressers only through appointment.
So it's a very small relaxation of the lockdown, also don't forget they are in very strict lockdown since November and there is only so much a society can handle. They are raising the fines to 500Eu, which is a lot for most Greeks
Also, the numbers in Greece are pretty good compared to a lot of other countries in Europe.

In the big scheme of things I would have suggested that it is too early, isn't a governments primary duty to protect it's citizens before commerce ? Instead of opening up retail why can't the Greek government allow the supermarkets to sell non essential goods again and prevent mass movements of people.
Look at the state of the UK and other countries that didn't lock down soon enough or hard enough and knowing the Greeks, give them an inch they will try to take a mile.
We are still in Greece with no idea of when we can drive back to the UK because of restrictions in the countries we have pass through.

 

[Tony Cross]

Greece has announced it is allowing the retail sector to start opening from Monday. Do you think this is a premature move bearing what other countries are (not) allowing. Up to now only a miniscule of folk has be inoculated or do you think it's asking for future problems?

Nope, not at all - and I live there. All Greece is doing is allowing shops to open, there are stricter (than before) limitations on the numbers of people allowed inside shops. Not only are you still required to send an SMS before leaving home but you must complete your shopping within a 2 hour window. Everything else relating to the lockdown, including the 9pm to 6am curfew and the mandatory wearing of a mask everywhere outside your home, are still very much in effect.

It's worth bearing in mind that since last November Greece has been in a properly managed, unambiguous and country-wide lockdown. It's very different to the lackadaisical and piecemeal measures being applied (and seemingly largely ignored) in the UK.

The government estimated that Greece was losing around €3bn a month in the retail sector. Greece has once again flattened (and reduced) the curve of infection rates and vaccinations of the public have begun., This is a sensible and carefully considered move.

 

[grumpygit]

Nope, not at all - and I live there. All Greece is doing is allowing shops to open, there are stricter (than before) limitations on the numbers of people allowed inside shops. Not only are you still required to send an SMS before leaving home but you must complete your shopping within a 2 hour window. Everything else relating to the lockdown, including the 9pm to 6am curfew and the mandatory wearing of a mask everywhere outside your home, are still very much in effect.

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Yes agree to the rules you quote except for the curfew is 6pm to 6am here. I don't think there is any control to how many time you use the SMS as there is 6 choices on the app, so the 2 hour window is possibly irrelevant.
But surely the more shops that do open and more rules will get broken with the movement of more people, unless Cretans have a different mindset to the rest of Greece?

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

It's worth bearing in mind that since last November Greece has been in a properly managed, unambiguous and country-wide lockdown. It's very different to the lackadaisical and piecemeal measures being applied (and seemingly largely ignored) in the UK.
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I think you are being a tad naïve thinking this is the case. You need to see what goes on around here with movements, last w/e folk were turning up from Attica just to be at their second homes and they had visitors calling every day.
This really p***ed me off when all the sacrifices we and others have done to obey and comply to the rules not to mention them being possible spreaders.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The government estimated that Greece was losing around €3bn a month in the retail sector. Greece has once again flattened (and reduced) the curve of infection rates and vaccinations of the public have begun., This is a sensible and carefully considered move.

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And please tell me which country isn't losing money? With it flattening of cases and deaths they should in my view extend the lockdown a bit longer to be sure and prevent the yoyo effect of further lockdowns like in so many other cases in other countries.

 

[Tony Cross]

Yes agree to the rules you quote except for the curfew is 6pm to 6am here. I don't think there is any control to how many time you use the SMS as there is 6 choices on the app, so the 2 hour window is possibly irrelevant.

If the police want to check the number of SMS messages you've used then they can - via the provider. In addition, when shopping you are required to carry all receipts and they are time stamped.

But surely the more shops that do open and more rules will get broken with the movement of more people, unless Cretans have a different mindset to the rest of Greece?

Oh but they do, I thought that was well known?

I think you are being a tad naïve thinking this is the case. You need to see what goes on around here with movements, last w/e folk were turning up from Attica just to be at their second homes and they had visitors calling every day.
This really p***ed me off when all the sacrifices we and others have done to obey and comply to the rules not to mention them being possible spreaders.

Yes, there is a small minority here who think the rules don't apply to them, but the police are out and about and I've seen people being stopped. TBH Attica contains 50% of the population of Greece - and have contributed massively to the Greece infection rates, so it's no surprise they're trying to leave. I know people here who have reported Athenians coming to second homes in Crete. The fact is though that the Greek infection rate has plummeted from over 2000 a day before Christmas to just over 200 now. It's overwhelmingly being supported and it's working.

And please tell me which country isn't losing money? With it flattening of cases and deaths they should in my view extend the lockdown a bit longer to be sure and prevent the yoyo effect of further lockdowns like in so many other cases in other countries.

I think the difference now is that they have the vaccine. You'll note that the lockdown that was supposed to end today is continuing, with no announcement of when it will end. Mitsotakis always said that they would open up the country slowly and carefully. If they start to see an increase then the shops will be shut again.

 

[grumpygit]

If the police want to check the number of SMS messages you've used then they can - via the provider. In addition, when shopping you are required to carry all receipts and they are time stamped.


Oh but they do, I thought that was well known?


Yes, there is a small minority here who think the rules don't apply to them, but the police are out and about and I've seen people being stopped. TBH Attica contains 50% of the population of Greece - and have contributed massively to the Greece infection rates, so it's no surprise they're trying to leave. I know people here who have reported Athenians coming to second homes in Crete. The fact is though that the Greek infection rate has plummeted from over 2000 a day before Christmas to just over 200 now. It's overwhelmingly being supported and it's working.


I think the difference now is that they have the vaccine. You'll note that the lockdown that was supposed to end today is continuing, with no announcement of when it will end. Mitsotakis always said that they would open up the country slowly and carefully. If they start to see an increase then the shops will be shut again.

I can only speak as I know and see locally plus reports from friends in the Metropolis and other prefectures. I take most media reports with some scepticism so I think Tony that I may have an excuse for been a tad cynical and critical as you may have a slight rose tint to your glasses . . . . and I don't mean the drinking glasses

 

[Tony Cross]

I can only speak as I know and see locally plus reports from friends in the Metropolis and other prefectures. I take most media reports with some scepticism so I think Tony that I may have an excuse for been a tad cynical and critical as you may have a slight rose tint to your glasses . . . . and I don't mean the drinking glasses

I think it probably depends on where you are....

I also read tonight that the UK has the highest COVID death rate (16.5 per million) of any country in the world. Greece wasn't even on the list.

 

[mountain]

I think it probably depends on where you are....

I also read tonight that the UK has the highest COVID death rate (16.5 per million) of any country in the world. Greece wasn't even on the list.

Don't know what you've been reading but its 1,320 per million which is eighth worst in Europe.

Worldometer - real time world statistics

 

[Mistroma]

Don't know what you've been reading but its 1,320 per million which is eighth worst in Europe.

Worldometer - real time world statistics

Eighth worst in the world for deaths per million, not just Europe. Greece was 47th.

Last time I checked case rates per 100,000 over a week, UK was over 600 and Greece was about 45. Both figures will have dropped a lot since my last calculation and I imagine UK is below 500 by now and Greece likely to be around 40. Greece does seem to have achieved much better results than many other countries. I know that most of Greece has a very low population density but about 50% live in or close to Athens and are fairly closely packed together.

 

[newtothis]

Pick your stats, but there are some in which we are still winning...

 

[grumpygit]

I think it probably depends on where you are....

I also read tonight that the UK has the highest COVID death rate (16.5 per million) of any country in the world. Greece wasn't even on the list.

Absolutely, that's why I'm not defending or decrying your views, we can only speak as I/we find.

As far as death rates go, this all depends on the platform each country uses this for calculating the figures. So much for EU unification!
There are plenty stories around where the Greek families of the dead relative will sway the decision and not allow Coronavirus to be the cause of death as they think it casts a stigma against the rest of the family.

 

[Tony Cross]

As far as death rates go, this all depends on the platform each country uses this for calculating the figures. So much for EU unification!
There are plenty stories around where the Greek families of the dead relative will sway the decision and not allow Coronavirus to be the cause of death as they think it casts a stigma against the rest of the family.

That's certainly true. There are lies, damned lies, and statistics!

 

[De.windhoos]

That's certainly true. There are lies, damned lies, and statistics!

You have to look at the "excess death" numbers, a truly horrible phrase by the way. Those numbers show a much clearer picture than Covid related death statistics.