BrendanS
Well-known member
what is your position in the RNLI?
Confidential reporting
- Thread starter kimhollamby
- Start date
Lifeboat
N/A
Yeah, i realise i have read it a bit wrong, but you must understand that where i am from is a fishing town & you hear of lot of stories like this against the fisherman & i=t causes a lot of problems.
But my question is what can the RNLI do to help? I'm not really sure i follow, is just that you would like to see the issue in the stats or do you want a campaign etc?
Regards
But my question is what can the RNLI do to help? I'm not really sure i follow, is just that you would like to see the issue in the stats or do you want a campaign etc?
Regards
bdsweeting
New member
With regard to legality should not the local Harbour Byelaws be checked to see if pots etc. can actually be laid in or around fairways ?
PilotWolf
Well-known member
Local RNLI crew here have spent 2 or 3 recent training evenings plotting the unlit temporary racing bouys onto the charts so if there's a shout at night or in low vis hopefully they won't hit them at 18 knots. They re around the size of a 50 gallon drum but 1/2 submerged and some are predominantly black... should they be reported/removed?
I know which will do most damage.
PW
I know which will do most damage.
PW
[2068]
...
Re: Calshot - Lepe
I wasn't aware this zone was "no go", just that there was a "moving prohibited zone" around big ships in the precautionary area...
dv.
I wasn't aware this zone was "no go", just that there was a "moving prohibited zone" around big ships in the precautionary area...
dv.
pjs100
New member
Sorry Kim, confidential reporting seems to me to a bit of a distraction. Ref my previous post. Why not use the might of your publication or the higher power of the RYA to mount a test case using Health & Safety at Work legislation e.g. "putting a person at risk by your actions" to pursue the cowboys who call themselves seafarers? Or are is an old moaning point just good for easy copy? I'm not aware that the H&S at Work act differs from land to sea.
jjtop
jjtop
BrendanS
Well-known member
which bit of the legislation do you propose using?
I can't see ipc's lawyers willing get involved in expensive legal battles trying to set precedents. It's not a boating magazines role to set legal precedent. More of an RYA thing I would have thought, and even then they tend to work more by behind the scenes discussion than litigation
I can't see ipc's lawyers willing get involved in expensive legal battles trying to set precedents. It's not a boating magazines role to set legal precedent. More of an RYA thing I would have thought, and even then they tend to work more by behind the scenes discussion than litigation
pjs100
New member
Sorry for not responding earlier but we've had problems with BB installation (BT) we are now hopefully replying at warp factor 8.
legislation:
The bit that says you must not, by your actions, put people at risk within your workplace.
IPC & RYA:
Both are money making operations with interests in selling copy or service. From my point of view I think they are a long way behind the scene.
JJTOP
legislation:
The bit that says you must not, by your actions, put people at risk within your workplace.
IPC & RYA:
Both are money making operations with interests in selling copy or service. From my point of view I think they are a long way behind the scene.
JJTOP
BrendanS
Well-known member
Your reply makes no sense. Most people here are leisure boaters. How would this legislation apply to them. or where else do you propose to try to use this legislation.
pjs100
New member
Dear Vulcan I spend most of my life responding to B/S and recognise your reply. As a mere boaty person or a fully paid up member of the general public you are entitled to the protection of current H &S legislation: air, land, sea or deep space.
Beam me up if I'm incorrect.
jjtop
Beam me up if I'm incorrect.
jjtop
BrendanS
Well-known member
Why go to all the hassle of trying to make general Health and Safety regulations fit a maritime environment, and the cost of trying to make legal precedence, when there is already legislation in force which has already been shown to be applicable, such as the 1995 Merchant Shipping Act.
It's not bullshit, it's commensense. Why are you so keen for someone to foot the bill, to try and create legal precedence, when it's not necessary?
Have a look here for an example of what has already been achieved under the Merchant Shipping Act
http://www.thisisdorset.net/dorset/weymouth/news/WEYMOUTH_NEWS_NEWS0.html
You don't provide any explanation of how or why you want to use Health and Safety legistlation - people slipping on deck, collions with other vessels, hitting the pontoon when berthing, trapping a finger in the anchor chain?
and as I stated in an earlier post, most people here are leisure boaters, so how would health and safety at work be of any relevance. I've already asked you how you intend to use the legislation - you didn't respond, so you'll have to excuse me being a bit Vulcan and asking some pertinent questions that you don't appear to be answering
It's not bullshit, it's commensense. Why are you so keen for someone to foot the bill, to try and create legal precedence, when it's not necessary?
Have a look here for an example of what has already been achieved under the Merchant Shipping Act
http://www.thisisdorset.net/dorset/weymouth/news/WEYMOUTH_NEWS_NEWS0.html
You don't provide any explanation of how or why you want to use Health and Safety legistlation - people slipping on deck, collions with other vessels, hitting the pontoon when berthing, trapping a finger in the anchor chain?
and as I stated in an earlier post, most people here are leisure boaters, so how would health and safety at work be of any relevance. I've already asked you how you intend to use the legislation - you didn't respond, so you'll have to excuse me being a bit Vulcan and asking some pertinent questions that you don't appear to be answering
pjs100
New member
Brendan
Thanks for responding I think that you've addressed and expanded my initial point; in that there is already legislation in place to deal with this issue, whether it be H&S or maritime.
In raising safety in the workplace as an example I would see it applying to inshore fishermen in ensuring that they through their actions did not place the public or other workers at risk in <u>their workplace</u> . What happens on a privately owned leisure boat as in ones home I would suggest falls outside of that remit.
What clearly needs to happen is pressure from the leisure boating community (as is happening with the red diesel issue) to ensure the safety of all seafarers.
An ideal opportunity, as I said previously, for PBO or RYA to provide a lead.
JJTOP
Thanks for responding I think that you've addressed and expanded my initial point; in that there is already legislation in place to deal with this issue, whether it be H&S or maritime.
In raising safety in the workplace as an example I would see it applying to inshore fishermen in ensuring that they through their actions did not place the public or other workers at risk in <u>their workplace</u> . What happens on a privately owned leisure boat as in ones home I would suggest falls outside of that remit.
What clearly needs to happen is pressure from the leisure boating community (as is happening with the red diesel issue) to ensure the safety of all seafarers.
An ideal opportunity, as I said previously, for PBO or RYA to provide a lead.
JJTOP
mikepowell
New member
Hello all. This forum has just been brought to my attention and it's good to see the issue of unmarked fishing gear and CHIRP's role being discussed.
CHIRP reacts to incidents/near-misses, rather than accidents and in that sense a CHIRP report is part of a proactive process. CHIRP uses the information it receives to try and prevent the escalation from incident to accident and has achieved significant success in both its aviation and maritime programmes.
CHIRP became involved in the unmarked fishing gear issue at the request of the RYA who felt that incidents were widespread, but not collected consistently and independently. There were also some concerns that reports were not being submitted because of possible hostility from fishermen.
CHIRP accepts reports:
When you are concerned to protect your identity
When you wish others to benefit from an important "lesson learned"
When other reporting procedures are not appropriate or not available.
When you have tried other reporting procedures without the issue having been adequately addressed.
Reporting to CHIRP is relatively easy; we provide a form (clearly not universally popular!), but also accept reports over our web-site, by post, e-mail and by telephone (preferably followed up in writing). The form only asks for the relevant sections to be filled in, please feel free to ignore the others.
Despite the relatively few reports received there are signs that the profile of this issue has been raised significantly and progress is being made.
You have a number of voluntary reporting options including the MCA, MAIB, RYA, CHIRP and forums such as this one. The important thing is that they are reported and brought to the attention of someone who can do something about it. I would encourage all of you to continue to report and not to retaliate and risk becoming law breakers yourselves.
I look forward to participating in this forum again in the future and if anyone wants to know more about CHIRP and what we're up to, just get in touch.
All the best
Mike Powell
Director (Maritime) CHIRP
CHIRP reacts to incidents/near-misses, rather than accidents and in that sense a CHIRP report is part of a proactive process. CHIRP uses the information it receives to try and prevent the escalation from incident to accident and has achieved significant success in both its aviation and maritime programmes.
CHIRP became involved in the unmarked fishing gear issue at the request of the RYA who felt that incidents were widespread, but not collected consistently and independently. There were also some concerns that reports were not being submitted because of possible hostility from fishermen.
CHIRP accepts reports:
When you are concerned to protect your identity
When you wish others to benefit from an important "lesson learned"
When other reporting procedures are not appropriate or not available.
When you have tried other reporting procedures without the issue having been adequately addressed.
Reporting to CHIRP is relatively easy; we provide a form (clearly not universally popular!), but also accept reports over our web-site, by post, e-mail and by telephone (preferably followed up in writing). The form only asks for the relevant sections to be filled in, please feel free to ignore the others.
Despite the relatively few reports received there are signs that the profile of this issue has been raised significantly and progress is being made.
You have a number of voluntary reporting options including the MCA, MAIB, RYA, CHIRP and forums such as this one. The important thing is that they are reported and brought to the attention of someone who can do something about it. I would encourage all of you to continue to report and not to retaliate and risk becoming law breakers yourselves.
I look forward to participating in this forum again in the future and if anyone wants to know more about CHIRP and what we're up to, just get in touch.
All the best
Mike Powell
Director (Maritime) CHIRP
pelicanpete
Member
[ QUOTE ]
Now speaking here on MY account & NOT that of the RNLI. I find it very worring that so many of you also have such a disregard for another mans living & the law, why all this he is an "offender"? Why is he the offender when it's you who is there for pleasure not your livelyhood.
[/ QUOTE ]
What a ridiculous and stupid opinion! What would your reaction be if I planted trees in the middle of the M3 because I liked to harvest nuts!
Now speaking here on MY account & NOT that of the RNLI. I find it very worring that so many of you also have such a disregard for another mans living & the law, why all this he is an "offender"? Why is he the offender when it's you who is there for pleasure not your livelyhood.
[/ QUOTE ]
What a ridiculous and stupid opinion! What would your reaction be if I planted trees in the middle of the M3 because I liked to harvest nuts!
Phoenix of Hamble
Active member
Thanks Mike...... Its not a perfect system, as the posts all suggest, but at least there's progress..... welcome to the forum.
duncan
Active member
[ QUOTE ]
What a ridiculous and stupid opinion! What would your reaction be if I planted trees in the middle of the M3 because I liked to harvest nuts!
[/ QUOTE ]
(1) you won't find many professional potters potting in the shipping lanes (M3) - because their ends just keep getting cut off.
(2) I believe lifeboat was responding to those suggesting that all potters were at fault etc and subsequently (to that post) clarified.
Generally I am of the view that the local harbour aurhorities should do more to ensure that navigation is safeguarded in those areas under their control through byelaws and enforcement as already commented on.
In open water that secrecy should be put ahead of safety is however ridiculous.
What a ridiculous and stupid opinion! What would your reaction be if I planted trees in the middle of the M3 because I liked to harvest nuts!
[/ QUOTE ]
(1) you won't find many professional potters potting in the shipping lanes (M3) - because their ends just keep getting cut off.
(2) I believe lifeboat was responding to those suggesting that all potters were at fault etc and subsequently (to that post) clarified.
Generally I am of the view that the local harbour aurhorities should do more to ensure that navigation is safeguarded in those areas under their control through byelaws and enforcement as already commented on.
In open water that secrecy should be put ahead of safety is however ridiculous.
fisherman
Well-known member
[ QUOTE ]
(1) you won't find many professional potters potting in the shipping lanes (M3) - because their ends just keep getting cut off.
Unfortunately we find that thoroughly perverse crabs and lobsters inhabit those places frequented by ships. Sometimes in my usual area of fishing, between one and six miles off The Lizard, I have lost a hundred ends in a season. £650.
(1) you won't find many professional potters potting in the shipping lanes (M3) - because their ends just keep getting cut off.
Unfortunately we find that thoroughly perverse crabs and lobsters inhabit those places frequented by ships. Sometimes in my usual area of fishing, between one and six miles off The Lizard, I have lost a hundred ends in a season. £650.
blueglass
New member
How about posting a link on this forum to your online reporting facility?
I think you might increase the rate of reporting dramatically if people can see an alternative to a detailed written, snail mail system.
I think you might increase the rate of reporting dramatically if people can see an alternative to a detailed written, snail mail system.
BrendanS
Well-known member
website is here
http://www.chirp.co.uk/main/Maritime.htm
Click on reporting, then forms to download forms in 3 possible formats. It then falls down, as clicking on send report sends them an email, but you can't attach the report. Presumably they email you back and they contact you????
http://www.chirp.co.uk/main/Maritime.htm
Click on reporting, then forms to download forms in 3 possible formats. It then falls down, as clicking on send report sends them an email, but you can't attach the report. Presumably they email you back and they contact you????
blueglass
New member
thanks for link. Actually i recognised the website as soon as I saw it. I gave up on it last time as all i could see was a means of downloadind the form, printing it out, filling it in and putting it in the post.
I then noted from Mike Powell's posting here that he claimed you could report online. This is clearly not the case unless I am missing something.
If they genuinely want to collect information about this growing and very real problem, a less passive approach is required.
rgds,
Dave
I then noted from Mike Powell's posting here that he claimed you could report online. This is clearly not the case unless I am missing something.
If they genuinely want to collect information about this growing and very real problem, a less passive approach is required.
rgds,
Dave