New to EU .. Med. Looking for 22-24m MY. Pros/Cons of Types?

[Hooligan]

Hello to all ~
New to the Forum as of 22 July.

I am a San Francisco - USA, 20 yr, USCG 100 Ton Master, power boater (and a dual-Cit - Portugal).
My wife and I are planning a 1-3 year tour of the EU, and are thinking about a 22-24m "live aboard" program that would take us all over the northern Med., 3-6 months per-place, at a time.
I am familiar with American boats that would suit this (older Hatteras, Burger, Broward, Grand Banks; newer Flemming, Ocean Alexander, Outer Reef). I am *not* familiar with EU brands.
We will double-hand the boat, and I want to stay below 24m for all kinds of reasons.
So, before we go jumping in with both feet, what should I be thinking about?
Presume I am a total novice.
Warn me about: windage, fuel costs, maintenance gremlins.
Talk to me about the variages of wooden boats vs. plastic, vs aluminum.
Tell me about how difficult or impossible it will be to find a transient slip in a marina for a 22-24m boat.
Talk me out of this plan, then tell me why you what you would do to make it happen for yourself.

You need to factor in some hefty marina bills if you are planning to berth in the N Med. i would think given your plans that you would be best to base yourself in more southerly areas or at least not the Balearics or S France and then cruise during the summer to wherever you want. It has been easier finding berths for transit during the current Covid crisis but usually during the summer months you will need to book well in advance. If you are living on the boat during the winter months I strongly suggest that you look carefully at where you hole up. Some places can be pretty soulless so i would think you need to be near a City or somewhere with some culture. Personally I would have thought Italy would be the first place to look re marina base. It will be cheaper, it is ideally suited to moving North or South or West and the food and culture is unbeatable.

 

[Hurricane]

Of course there's a high degree of personal preference on all that, M.

Boat handling had absolutely nothing to see with my preference for something smaller, anyway.
Not from the helmsman viewpoint, at least - more so for the deck hand, though.
It's rather the overall housekeeping of the bloody thing that grows with size, and which takes your time day in, day out.
Now, I know that you enjoy that as a pastime (your DIY covers and teak replacement are just two examples that spring to mind), and you have all my respect for that. But that just doesn't happen to be true for myself, nor for S...

In fact, our previous 16m timber boat where we actually started living aboard, and did for almost a decade, has always been large and comfortable enough for our needs. The reason why we later downgraded to a 17m plastic fantastic is mostly (and I'm tempted to say strictly) to reduce the maintenance needs.

Mind, we obviously like the amenities that a 24m boat can offer - who wouldn't !?
But taking care of her ourselves alone, 24/7?
No thanks, I'd rather give up boating, and I kid you not.

Yep - very good points.
I'm starting to find all this DIY work harder and harder.
Are we getting old or something?
For example that last deck job - I said to some friends last week that if, before I had started, I had known how much hard work was, I probably wouldn't have started it!!!
Job looks good though and I'm please with it so maybe it was worth it and it has definitely been something to occupy my mind during the various lock downs.

 

[Hurricane]

OP says he's got Portuguese citizenship. Might make a difference.

I missed reading that.
That should work for him.

 

[Buccaneer-USA]

The boat is one issue - 18 months inside the EU at a time (just one day out of the EU to reset).
But what about yourselves - you say that you want to "live aboard".
Just like the UK, you would be limited to 90 days in any 180 days.
Maybe some kind of visa but, we in the UK, are looking for something like that as well.
It will be interesting to hear how that problem is overcome.

I am a PT Citizen…. (Dual US)

 

[Buccaneer-USA]

I know there is a difference between HighLow season re berthing ..

How difficult, how much, for 3 months at a time, as we work our way from Lisbon to Palma, up the Rhone, down to Marseilles, to Nice to Malta, to Venice to Split to Istanbul and back…

It’s a 3 year plan… I think.

And, yard work help? For that Alalunga? Readily available — everywhere?

 

[Bouba]

I know there is a difference between HighLow season re berthing ..

How difficult, how much, for 3 months at a time, as we work our way from Lisbon to Palma, up the Rhone, down to Marseilles, to Nice to Malta, to Venice to Split to Istanbul and back…

It’s a 3 year plan… I think.

And, yard work help? For that Alalunga? Readily available — everywhere?

Do you want to take the boat up the Rhone river?

 

[Portofino]

I know there is a difference between HighLow season re berthing ..

How difficult, how much, for 3 months at a time, as we work our way from Lisbon to Palma, up the Rhone, down to Marseilles, to Nice to Malta, to Venice to Split to Istanbul and back…

It’s a 3 year plan… I think.

And, yard work help? For that Alalunga? Readily available — everywhere?

Not very difficult.
As said avoid Balearics and CdA in the school hols for longer stays , you can certainly anchor off in sheltered bays with the odd stay for a day or two / three in the busy ports .
Yard work is universal in the Med no destination issue there except the prices are higher in the popular busy places .
Theses two ^^^ are none issues in your general plan .

Pick up a nice car in LA and drive up to NY , “ where can I find fuel “ “ what happens if it’s needs tyre “ “ where is the nearest ( insert marque ) dealer .Ans stop worrying just get in and drive and sort stuff out on the hoof .
They have cars in the mid west as well .

As for cost check out Marina web pages for 22/24 M rates .

 

[MapisM]

And, yard work help? For that Alalunga? Readily available — everywhere?

Generally speaking, one advantage of boats like that (aside from the general build quality, that you couldn't find nowadays in any production builder) is that any half decent yard can work on them.
But with that particular boat, her engines are a partial exception to this rule.
In fact, her first owner more than likely spent a fair bit of extra money for her MTUs vs. the equivalent MANs, built around the very same M-B block, which the builder normally installed on that model.
So, arguably it was a connoisseur choice back then, but those MTUs happen to be the only semi-electronic and somewhat peculiar version of their 183 series - the very last one before the manufacturer phased the whole 183 series out.
So, the rather sophisticated MTU marinization, together with the limited popularity of the model, in practice restrict your choice to MTU dealers, and preferably old school ones.
If you can find some which aren't retired yet, that is...

 

[Buccaneer-USA]

Do you want to take the boat up the Rhone river?

My bride does… for sure. Height limits are MY issue.
?

 

[PlanB]

I don't know if it's still relevant, but 15 years ago I found Reeds Almanac a great tool for planning stops - details of all marinas incl accepted LOAs, fuel and other facilities.

 

[westernman]

I don't know if it's still relevant, but 15 years ago I found Reeds Almanac a great tool for planning stops - details of all marinas incl accepted LOAs, fuel and other facilities.

There is Bloc Marine for that. A bargain at 32 euros.

Amazon.fr : 2916175938

Almost essential for any boat in the Med.

 

[Bouba]

There is Bloc Marine for that. A bargain at 32 euros.

Amazon.fr : 2916175938

Almost essential for any boat in the Med.

Yes, the maps alone are worth the money

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Now, that is a great find.
Alalungas are among the very few boats who tempted me to go larger, during my last search.
Go for her Porto, you know you want to.
BTW, allegedly, their hulls are second to none in terms of seaworthiness/comfort, so I don't think you'd be missing anything in that respect.

Is that really a year 2000 boat? Looks more like a boat from the 1980s

To reply to the OP, whether your plan is viable is going to depend on how much money youre willing to spend. These figures are in EUROS. For example you could easily spend €50,000 a year in short term and long term mooring costs for a 22-24m boat, given that you'll be moving on regularly although of course you could save money by anchoring overnight for extended periods or spend the high season summer months further south ( S Sardinia, Sicily, S Italy) where the marina costs are cheaper. And you could easily spend the same amount per year again on maintaining, repairing and upgrading a 30-40yr old boat of that size although again labour rates further south in the Med and the Adriatic are somewhat less. You will be lucky to find a boat of that age with stabilisers so factor in another €100,000 for those. On top of that you might spend €10-15,000 a year on fuel (costs €1.40-1.80/litre in the Med) and €2-3000 a year on insurance. And then of course you've got depreciation on the boat itself which is anybody's guess but could be €30,000 a year on a 30-40yr old boat

As for which boat, a personal favourite of mine is the San Lorenzo 72, older examples of which should fall into your price bracket. They're built like a brick shithouse and have a good reputation for seaworthiness although the engine room does not have full standing headroom

 

[MapisM]

Is that really a year 2000 boat? Looks more like a boat from the 1980s

Good question, M. The short answer has to be I don't know.

BUT, an 80s boat she surely isn't, and not because the 80s style was very different, but because she doesn't have the reverse slanted stern.
That's something which not only Alalungas, but also everyone else (SL, Canados, CdP, Diano, Ghibli... You name it) used through the 80s.

Besides, those "old style" Alalungas were wooden built up to the mid 90s, when they began the GRP conversion, offering both choices for some years.
And I believe that the boat in the ad is a plastic one, probably one of the last.
In fact, beautiful as she is, she's not anymore built with the money no object approach which you could find in their earlier wooden boats.

For instance, a mid 90s wooden Alalunga 65 which left me speechless had side doors pneumatically actuated, and hiding completely inside the superstructure when opened, while that 70 has the much less expensive pantograph doors.
Same goes for the saloon door, which is manual in the latter and was pneumatic in that older 65.
The bimini steel structure is also rather normal in that 70, while in the boat I've seen it was a true masterpiece, rock solid, and worth exposing in a museum.
The Portholes are also different: while those in the 70, with their steel storm shutters, are good enough to put to shame any modern boat, in that older 65 they were even more impressive, with battleship-style wing bolts instead of levers.

And I'm sure there are other more subtle differences/compromises, progressively adopted after (sadly) Spertini was almost killed by an accident in the early 90s, and sold the yard because he couldn't manage it anymore...

 

[Buccaneer-USA]

Is that really a year 2000 boat? Looks more like a boat from the 1980s

To reply to the OP, whether your plan is viable is going to depend on how much money youre willing to spend. These figures are in EUROS. For example you could easily spend €50,000 a year in short term and long term mooring costs for a 22-24m boat, given that you'll be moving on regularly although of course you could save money by anchoring overnight for extended periods or spend the high season summer months further south ( S Sardinia, Sicily, S Italy) where the marina costs are cheaper. And you could easily spend the same amount per year again on maintaining, repairing and upgrading a 30-40yr old boat of that size although again labour rates further south in the Med and the Adriatic are somewhat less. You will be lucky to find a boat of that age with stabilisers so factor in another €100,000 for those. On top of that you might spend €10-15,000 a year on fuel (costs €1.40-1.80/litre in the Med) and €2-3000 a year on insurance. And then of course you've got depreciation on the boat itself which is anybody's guess but could be €30,000 a year on a 30-40yr old boat

As for which boat, a personal favourite of mine is the San Lorenzo 72, older examples of which should fall into your price bracket. They're built like a brick shithouse and have a good reputation for seaworthiness although the engine room does not have full standing headroom

I figured 2-2.5k / month for moorage. And that 10-15k for fuel, and 30k +/- for repair & maintenance. Your depreciation number pretty much aligned with mine as well.
75-100k annual budget. EUROS. (Damn that exchange rate!)
Sound reasonable?

 

[jrudge]

Mooring will likely cost more than that, especially as you are moving. Where I am in Mallorca morning on annual contract for an 18m boat is e32k. A 24m boat will be double ans then more on short term rates. My last boat was 21m and that some years ago was e6000 a month in summer season. The rates are up since then

 

[Buccaneer-USA]

Mooring will likely cost more than that, especially as you are moving. Where I am in Mallorca morning on annual contract for an 18m boat is e32k. A 24m boat will be double ans then more on short term rates. My last boat was 21m and that some years ago was e6000 a month in summer season. The rates are up since then

6k / month for moorage?

 

[jrudge]

Yup. And will be closer to 8k now I suspect.

the summer months are where most of the cost lies. Winter is cheaper!

your biggest cost by far in the med is typically mooring fees.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I figured 2-2.5k / month for moorage. And that 10-15k for fuel, and 30k +/- for repair & maintenance. Your depreciation number pretty much aligned with mine as well.
75-100k annual budget. EUROS. (Damn that exchange rate!)
Sound reasonable?

If youre lucky but some years you might have to budget for €100k+ if you get a large unexpected repair bill on the boat which I can almost guarantee will happen on an older boat of the vintage you are thinking about

To an extent though the budget is within your control. The more you move about, the more marinas you will visit and have to pay proportionately higher short term mooring charges. The less you move about the longer you can stay in cheaper marinas and take advantage of their lower long term mooring charges

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

For instance, a mid 90s wooden Alalunga 65 which left me speechless had side doors pneumatically actuated, and hiding completely inside the superstructure when opened,

Just like a Ferretti then?