YM Motor Qualifications

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alant

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According to the RYA, YM Motor, can be done using a vessel between 7 metres-24 metres length, powered by single, twin or outdrive engine (s).
If this is indeed the accepted requirement, leaving aside the obvious vast differences in the handling charecteristics of these widely differing types (with no specification for engine power/boat speed/displacement hull versus planing hull), does this mean that you can be examined using a 'sailing boat' under engine only?
If not, why not?

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Look at page 4 of RYA publication G.18/03 which differs in one respect from your information. Under Own Boat Examinations it refers to candidates providing a MOTOR CRUISER of not less than 7m LOA, and not a VESSEL as you say.
This is more than a subtle difference, don't you think?
If you are still unhappy I suggest that you ask the RYA. Training Division should be able to help.


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Personally I cant see why the conversion from sail to motor should require another practical exam..

If you can handle a yacht with very little horsepower in tight situations then you will not have any difficulty grasping the teqniques of handling a motorboat.

For someone who can prove they have considerable motorboat experience an oral exam on highspeed nav ,use of trim tabs fuel calculations etc should be enough.

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Thanks for that info, but my original description was as given by RYA Training.
See a post on 'Motor' - apparently there is a candidate about to use a 'sailing vessel for a Motor exam'.
One reason for my post, was the fact that I speak to many YM 'sail' wanting to convert to YM 'Motor', who are perplexed by the seeming lack of logic in determining what is a 'motor vessel' (RIB? etc) & the variety of craft drive types available, which can allow a successful candidate to then drive almost anything. Even 'Sail' sailors must be aware that a Sunseeker type may have different handling characteristics compared to a Nelson or a Trawler type. So does it make sense to give one blanket certificate?

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As a yottie just out of L plates - if one is every really out of them...

I can certainly see the need for a practical for a motor boat.

My boat does things at less than 6kts, in a mobo, that sandbank could be approaching at 30+kts.

I have pretty good control in a crosswind unless it's huge, even at quite low speed because I've got much less windage and a couple of (relatively) huge keels under me. From my limited experience, a mobo is a complety different beast, especially a planing hull. In any sort of crosswind, it's far more interested in going sideways than forwards, and many can't keep down to a 6kt speed limit at idle. They have to slip in and out of gear - and with their tiny rudders, or worse, outdrives, they only steer in gear.

Still if you know what you're doing, they can be handled fine - Last August, I watched a 40+ft gin palace move off a crowded Bembrige pontoon by driving out sideways. he then pivoted in his own length (no more space in the channel with boats 3 & 4 deep on the visitors' pontoon) and left. I'd hate to try that without a fair bit of practice!

To each his/her own, I suppose, but I'm glad mine's got a big stick on top

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You are right, I am power based and have taught a couple of sailors motor boat handling. there is a differance. a power boat will glide sideways much more than a yacht and as you said things happen very fast if you are not carefull. practise and a bit of instruction is mainly what is needed, it is easy to scare yourself. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

<hr width=100% size=1>Julie ,
IMOSHO of course,
 
That is one of the reasons for my post.
I am not suggesting that Motor as such is easier (particularly at low speed for the very reasons you have given).
But, the variation in engine types (one or two), & hence in most cases the boat speed (can be 5 - 50 knts & still same certificate!),
handling characteristics (displacement v planing hull)
draft (deep or shallow),
with or without bow/stern thrusters,
Single hull or catamaran,
RIB's,
gives the confusion & premise, as also mentioned by 'Graham', why shouldn't a sailing hull with single screw also be included?
Or type specify the certificate, which might make more sense.
Regarding high speed navigation (the MCA regard High Speed Vessels as those capable of 25knts +), the RYA Day Skipper theory course is the same for both Motor & Sail & predominantly is 'low speed Nav' & well below this 25 knts.

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Yes it would be easya to class YM for each type but the paper work involved would be terriable. YM power you have to show you can handle the boat with one engeine on a twin screw, The boats under power handle in similar ways . main differance is between shaft and outdrives. Latter requiring use of the helm more.
hope this helps

<hr width=100% size=1>Julie ,
IMOSHO of course,
 
Every boat has different handling characteristics.

Practise and familiarisation is allways needed on a new craft ,whatever type it is,and no amount of certificates can replace that.

I think that in recommending you for a YM certificate the examiner is presuming that you are sensible enough to realize that the learning process carries on until you swallow the anchor.





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agreed. However, for YM you have to do this sort of thing with one of the two engines suddenly out of action. A practical definitely needed for power - low speed more than high speed really, and i am fairtly sure many examiners will want to carry out the exam on a twin-engine planing or semi-displacement boat to count as "motor" - not a boat with a fin keel and max 6-7 knots really. For YM sail there is a conversion course to power.

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Absolutely. Having been involved with MN training for a number of years I know that a Master Mariner once holding the certificate of competence should be able to take command of anything from, say, a 200,000 ton supertanker through the latest in cruise liners down to a small survey ship and anything in between. The same philosophy applies to holders of YM motor certificate of competence.
Many years ago, after being an examiner for a few years, I was horrified to learn that one of the requirements to take command of a Thames Barge of over 80 grt was a YM Offshore Sail certificate. The week before I had passed a candidate who had done really well - in a Sadler 32. He was then 'qualified' if that's the right word to be the skipper of a Thames Barge.
I hope that this helps with your difficulty in understanding the system.

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Have a limited knowlege of sail, but I believe there are many type of sailing boats , Single masted, twin masted, etc, and maney differant types of sail,
so a YM sail has to be able to work out how they all work, they all have to go up and down a mast somehow, this is the same for power differant boats but they all go forward , backwards and sideways, So IMHO this seems to me to be the same from where I am standing on the power side of the fence as you veiwing from the sail side. YM covers a lot of ground, One of the things I have been told an examiner will do is ask him self would he let this candidate take his family out on a boat with him or her as skipper,[ he must want them back]
hope this helps./forums/images/icons/smile.gif

<hr width=100% size=1>Julie ,
IMOSHO of course,
 
"a Master Mariner once holding the certificate of competence should be able to take command of anything from, say, a 200,000 ton supertanker through the latest in cruise liners down to a small survey ship and anything in between." - yes, if you have a yellow chalk it can look similar to cheese - a MM has undergone a 'lifetime' of well scrutinised (by his peers & betters) training/experience/progression from possibly a Midshipman (if they still exist) thru' to this ultimate level of expertise & has probably been master of most of those types at some stage. Yes some of them still bump into the Nab Tower from time to time, but I hardly think it is a comparison, thes guys definitely know what they are up to.
Agree with the Sadler story - I was once asked to Skipper a 500 ton coaster on a voyage from Medway to South America, on the strength of a YM Ocean ticket! Phew!!
Ref Powerskipper, yes all sails go up & down, but can someone only used to a single engined heavy displacement 7 - 10knt max Trawler Yacht understand a Sunseeker type planing hull with its peculiarities - at speed or 'parking'. Yes they are both Motor & have engines, but!
Interesting comments though.

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There is another coment. would you take on the roll of skipper on something that big with no experiance.You are taking peaples lives in your hands. I am all way honest and if I have not skippered a type of boat before will say so and either gain experiance as second skipper or crew, untill happy. or will walk away from job,
It boils down to saftey, IMHO

<hr width=100% size=1>Julie ,
IMOSHO of course,
 
I agree. Turned it down flat - it was destined for French Guyana & looked decidedly dodgy. (as well as the safety aspect! - this is always non-negotiable with me & this is not a 'humble oppinion').

Anyway YM only allows up to 200 tons or 24metres, whichever is the smaller & this would certailnly have excluded this vessel.

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