YM Exam - red faced candidate/examiner?

john_morris_uk

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I was conducting a YM exam recently and asked the candidate to take the boat up a creek until there was 0.5m under the keel. I also asked him to calculate where he thought this would be. (Secondary calculation necessary followed by some tricky pilotage) It was a big spring tide and we were half flood, so no problem about hitting the mud. He put his finger on the chart at what looked to be about the right place so off we go.

All went reasonably well (except for the rain and mist and the candidate wearing glasses that fogged up with nerves and the precipitation, but I forgave him his nerves etc)

Anyway, we get up to the point that he had calulated and the echosounder still shows loads of water. We were a bit later than he had calculated so I suggested we go a bit further. Shortly afterwards we went aground and noticed that the echo-sounder had reset itself to reading feet and not metres.

Doh!

Not sure who was more embarressed!
 

Cornishman

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Were you going up to Millbrook, then? I used to use that exercise regularly and one day had to do it myself on an examiners' update. Then I learned how the candidates must feel!
BTW there are some fine transits to use if you look over your shoulder. Happy days, glad I have retired now. I was at it so long that James Stevens accused me of being the examiner who failed Noah for running aground during his exam! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 

graham

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I heard a story of an examiner who set the candidate a tricky pilotage exercise taking the exam boat which was a Contessa 32 up a small creek in the dark and finding a suitable place to anchor.

The candidate performed confidently and impressed the examiner (who had noticed earlier the man was very nervous.) but suggested they would be unwise to anchor for fear of fouling a mooring. The examiner agreed so they picked up a vacant mooring for a quick cuppa ."What boat do you sail?asked the examiner."That one"replied the candidate pointing to an identical Contessa 32 on the next mooring.
 

john_morris_uk

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Touche. It wasn't Millbay - but somewhere near. I usually chat to them about where they have been in their pre-exam training - and then try to find somewhere they haven't been.

I suppose the really switched on candidate could try and be economical with the truth....

I always remember Bill Anderson's final line to me when I was made an examiner. "You don't have to set trick questions - the candidates can muck up quite easily by themselves...."
 
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Hmmm. I recall being asked by a YM Examiner to lay alongside the end of the Pandora Inn's T-jetty, under sail, one lunchtime. OK so far. Examiner then decided that it would be a very good idea to pop in for a quick pint 'n an oggie, and he strode off along the jetty and through the front door of said famous - and favourite - pub.

Being the suspicious b*****d that I am, I did the sums in sum detail, and worked out that there was likely to be only about 20 mins max before we'd touch. Oggies take longer than that to warm up.... And with the sluicing ebb just there, we'd probably be stuck there all afternoon and into the evening.....

Maybe that was the idea, but we got away again PDQ, under sail, and reluctantly - without the much-desired beer.

Still don't know if the decision to go was the seamanlike thing.......
 

snowleopard

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local knowledge

i'd be interested to know which transits you use for creeping up to millbrook. i drove round the area at low water to work out the geography but i never seem to find the deepest water around southdown. so far i haven't been caught out but i often grind to a halt a few yards from my mooring and end up using the boathook like a javelin to hook the bridle!
 

john_morris_uk

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Hmm Examiners are human too - perhaps he just got it wrong?

I can't speak for other examiners but I always say to the candidates that I don't set trick questions. For instance I have heard of people in the past being asked to go places where there is insufficient water just to see if they can work it out and explain that it can't be done. I am not convinced that such questions are fair.

If you are interested in what makes a bigger problem for the examiner, its the candidate who sails - but not very well. Beating to windward is not as efficient as it ought to be. A series of close reaches... We don't run anywhere near downwind (fair enough sometimes), but we gybe in a series of lengthy legs that are more like a reach. Try to imagine the frustration of watching people sail - but not very well.

Two problems. You can't fail some-one for being safe but you can't pass some-one who can't sail. However you never get a perfect candidate so you have to try and balance the whole thing up in your mind.
 

graham

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I went hard aground on the last hour of a falling tide when I took the exam.I had allready worked out that there was not enough water but the examiner assured me there was more than charted.Initially I feared I had fallen into a trap but the examiner was a genuine bloke so we took an extended lunch break until she refloated.

I think it lightened up the mood on the boat a bit or was that the effect of tea and sausage sarnies?
 

graham

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later on a longish beat to windward in the dark he took us below one at a time for some oral questions etc using flash cards for the lights questions. I pride myself on being a bit of an anorak in this department but the very first one had me baffled.

I could see it had to be a towing situation but my head could not get round it. After a few minutes he had a look at the card with his maglite torch and said dreadfully sorry then held his finger over a damaged bit of the card which looked in the poor light like an extra white light!!

I still wonder if he keeps that card for a laugh...After the question and answer session he finally made the announcement I had been hoping for.Could have hugged and kissed him but had been told not to tell the others at that stage.And they may have got nervous at the sight of two grown men snogging in the saloon.

Did you ever get any strange reactions to giving people the good/bad news after an exam?
 

john_morris_uk

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Strange reactions...

Not sure about wanting to kiss many of the candidates that I have passed!

The most difficult was one young man who failed recently - he and his girlfriend were relatively new to sailing - had had jobs as deck crew on various fancy boats and wanted to become a skipper - all part of their grand plan. Unfortunately he really had very little experience in driving boats around under power or sail and he failed. The sad part was that they had no more money for another attempt and were up against the wall. Its a bit uncomfortable when someone starts almost begging you to reconsider.

Mostly people who pass are very pleased and its difficult to get any more sense out of the conversation.

I try not let failure come as a suprise... If someone is doing badly they get a debrief part way through with something along the lines of '... this is what I need to see you demonstrating to me in terms of skills or taking charge of the crew.'

Another difficulty is in trying to stop the other candidates prompting the one in the hot seat about what they should be doing. Trying to get them to behave like competent crew rather than - 'I've put the anchor ball up, turned off the nav lights and checked we're not dragging skip....'
 

snowleopard

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[ QUOTE ]
If you are interested in what makes a bigger problem for the examiner, its the candidate who sails - but not very well. Beating to windward is not as efficient as it ought to be....

[/ QUOTE ]

my examiner criticised me for just that: over-reefing a big solid 40-footer when beating in a F6. the first thing he did as we set off was to put the MOB dummy in the cockpit ready to throw. no way was i going to have the boat hard over on its ear when the time came.

he was a gung-ho b****d and at the end of the exam he decided he wanted to take the helm from cowes to the hamble with everything up in a southerly 7. he dismissed my request to get the main down before entering the river and went charging in then handed it back to me once we were inside and tearing through the moorings.
 

john_morris_uk

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As you probably know, the scheme assumes that you present yourself in a well found yacht with an adequate crew and the examiner should not be asked to be crew.

I am also well aware that a certain well known examiner has examined a person who sailed single handed. I don't understand the problem. If it was me I might have phoned James Stevens up first but it seems to me to be a common sense solution.

When I have examined some people I have taken crew off them. In fact only last week, one candidate was waiting for two crew to come one deck (we had two already) before letting go for the next evolution. I suggested he showed me how it was done with the crew he had available. I often talk to candidates how they would pick up moorings etc single handed - if only to see if they are thinking about the factors involved.

This is beginning to sound like self justification - I hope its not. I am not perfect and often worry about standards of pass/fail and how I conduct exams. However if I can demythologise the process a bit and encourage others to have a go....

Hope that answers your ?'s.
 
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