YM: Boat Show Civil War?

Koeketiene

Koeketiene

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Chiropractor is a sailor too.
Glanced through this months YM as I was about 10 mins early.
Article caught my eye: Boat Show Civil War

"Major" exibitors would boycot Earls Court: Ancasta, Opal, Jeanneau, Volvo,...
Followed by a BMF rant.

Oh, how sad: the establishment does not like Earls Court. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Now I'll be making a point and visit Earls Court! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

At the end YM only provided a link to Excell & the BMF show - Earls Court not a website yet?
Or just confirming what I've long suspected: YM in the pocket of the establishment? /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
It's unfortunate that the costs of exhibiting at a major show with a large stand and boats on display is expensive, cost of being there/Staffing it/Moving boats/Building stands.

The two shows are very close together and for many companies it's just too much. Some of the big retailers are in boat show preparation mode from September onwards for the London boat show anyway.
 
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nothing new there though , we keep loosing entire threads on here at the whim of advertisers , so it's obvious who owns the forums to me

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Get a grip, this is their forum to do with as they please. There are no charges to join and use it. If you don't like it try

uk.rec.sailing

no moderation, no joining, no assistance, no lounge... you will hate it, you have it good here. I am bored of this continual rumble on the forum that YBW are not on our side. This is not to suggest I don't sometimes feel this way, but it is their ball.

Try uk.rec.sailing, I give most of you 10 minutes before creeping back here.
 
Bad day Jools ?? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

No point picking out my post though , and I don't need any recomendations for forums either , I've enlisted on an adults only one and we're getting on fine in there /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif without the attitude problems that some in here seem to have
 
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I am bored of this continual rumble on the forum that YBW are not on our side. This is not to suggest I don't sometimes feel this way, but it is their ball.


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The fact that they see fit to do things from time to time just because they can does not make it right.

I just wish they'd stop the charade - IPC publishes trade mags first and foremost. Longstanding - and it would seem ever closer - ties with BMF.
So be it, but stop preteding you're on our side. They take money from people every month (sub, news agents sales) who falsely believe them to be independent.
YM, PBO,... are infomercials at best. And hence, IMHO, should be free. Like All at Sea etc...

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Try uk.rec.sailing, I give most of you 10 minutes before creeping back here.

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I do monitor uk.rec.sailing - and I concede it's a bit of a jungle out there. But at least it comes without the blatant commercial interests.

Have you tried Sailinganarchy?
 
C'mon guys, I know you don't want to give a sucker an even break but be a little fair. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

The article referred to was the third of three reports in consecutive issues. The first, in March, was a factual announcement of the intention to hold an Earls Court Show. It introduced the players, described what they hope to do and how they planned to do it. Three YM staff attended the launch press conference, the Editor, News Editor and Advertising manager.

The second, in April gave the Earls Court organisers a pretty clear field to say what they had already achieved and how great it was all going to be. At this stage the BMF and National Boat Shows hadn't really made up their mind how they were going to respond to the rival show. At the end of the report the web address for Earls Court was given.

In May the BMF and National Boat Shows had their response and were also due a right of reply. If we had not reported on their position we would have been guilty as charged, but of bias the other way. Just because you guys rather like the idea of an underdog taking on the might of the BMF, we cannot be seen to promote one or the other.

YM will be attending the Earls Court Show and reporting on it. We will probably have a stand and so will be supporting it financially

In point of fact, on the staff of YM there are experienced journalists who have been writing and commenting on the British yachting scene for many, many years, have attended many boat shows and seen things from a much wide perspective than most. I think such people are entitled to express an opinion and I would have expected, if anything, that more comment and opinion would have been expressed.

I cannot see anything in the three articles, taken as a whole, that shows bias or which could possible indicate that YM supports either Excel or Earls Court or both or neither.

So now I'll tell you what I thnk. There isn't room for two winter shows in London; the international calendar is far too crowded, exhibitors are stretched to do the shows already scheduled and using agents is not a good answer for a major national show.


So it has to be one or the other. Personally I couldn't wait to get out of Earls Court - noisy, poorly ventilated, awful catering etc etc. Excel has its problems, I would be the first to admit, and NBS undoubtedly did not get the design right for the first couple of years. This year was much better but there is still room for improvement. Even so, Excel is the better site.

Should we encourage independent organisers? In essence yes. NBS have no monopolistic rights to run boat shows in the UK but they do have the right to protect, fairly, their own commercial interests. Since only one of these shows can survive, and since the Excel show has the better dates and better venue, and since most of the big players support Excel, I am afraid Earls Court is going to struggle. Two shows means two poor shows, so I have to support Excel.

This is my view and not the view of YM. I have no associations with the BMF, the BMF has not appreoached me on the subject, except in the usual way as a yachting journalist, and doesn't know of this post in advance. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
James - Thank you for your reply.

Now, as a fully paid up member of the "Akward Squad", here's mine:

Since NBS moved to Excell it's been all show and very little boat. In fact sometimes it seems that the boating thing is almost incidental.
The boats shows - and the London one in particular - no longer seem to care for the boater but now seem very keen to cater for either the casual, what shall we do this weeke-end, kind of visitor or the city type looking for a way to spend this years bonus.

Hence bouncy castles, beaches, "fog" tunnels, etc... Or view by appointment only mega yachts. In one of the previous articles you refer to NBS argued that if they hadn't moved to Excell exhibitors would have nowhere to show off 72ft yachts /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Hello - welcome to the real world. I, and I expect 99.9% of other posters on here don't give a toss for 72ft yachts. They are not a part of my world.
So either way, LBS has become a fun day out for the casual visitor and a nice way for the poor ordinary boater to subsidise the rich & the beautiful out to play. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

The London (Excell) Boat Show no longer cares for it's core market. The little man is left behind. And then they are upset/afraid that attendance may drop /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

And in seemingly taking sides - blatantly or not - YM/IPC... seems to be leaving behind it's readership too /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

So, here's what I hope Earls Court will deliver:
1. Less show & more boat. I am not looking for a glitsy gala event but more a glorified boat jumble.
2. Approachable & knowledgeable exhibitors. I don't want to waste my time trying to grab the attention of a stuffed shirt in a blue blazer only to find out that he can't answer a simple technical question. Most likely because he was selling double glazing last week and will be selling used cars next week.
3. Realistic boats - nothing above the 44-45 ft mark. Something attainable.
4. Chandlers offering real bargains on last year's model clothing or previous generation electronics, instead of the latest state of the art stuff at a healthy mark-up. More often than not, I have found that special boat show prices are higher than what they offer on-line.

There we are - all a matter of horses for courses.
Excell is certainly not the horse for my course. And judging by the replies to previous Excell <-> Earls Court threads I am not a minority of one.

And yes, I do feel YM/IPC should support the underdog and not try to appear to be sitting on the fence whilst in their heart rooting for the big boys because that's where the big advertising revenue is.
 
I have to say I agree with Guapa.

I have never been to an Earls Court show and I usually choose to sail instead of going to Southampton. To be honest, I was giving Excel one last bounce this year and it failed. I'll go again next year because my job takes me there, but that'll be the only reason.

Earls Court has the personal advantage to me in that it is twenty minutes away, but if it turns out to be full of smaller boats and less spivs then all well and good. If I don't have to clamber over pit-ponies trying to offer me the chance to win VIP hospitality on a Chavseeker then all the better.

My very real hope is that the Earls Court BS will be a show for real boat-owners like me. At the same time, I think it'll have far more value to me proffessionally if they do achieve this. I have only one client with a £7million hull but I have hundreds with one under £20k. It is they who are the core market for both me and 99% of the members of the BMF. The BMF and NBS would do well not to forget that.
 
I entirely respect your views and I too would enjoy a show like the one you describe but I can't help feeling we go to different shows or live in different worlds. I do not believe a show such as you describe could be held at a London venue in the Christmas period for all sorts fo reasons, many of which I have already mentioned. This is my view, not YMs

I wish I could find a link to some of the threads that appeared on Scuttlebutt in the years preceding the move to Excel. Almost to a man they were demanding a move from the excruciating torture of Earls Court.

One of the critisms of early Excels was that they were too much all boat and not enough show, so this year they introduced some more entertaining and interactive features and blow me down you knock them for that too. And what were all those fashion shows and paratroops dropping from the ceiling that we had to endure at Earls Court if they weren't added glitz to atract the city boys and their girlfriends.?I can't recall much, or certainy not more, boat jumble or last years lines at knock down prices at Earls Court than at Excel.

Some smaller boat builders have dropped out of Excel and that is regretable, but this was a trend already apparent at Earls Court where there was far less space and the big boys had an even greater presence in proportion. Also, the new boat market is moving up in size year by year. there are very few new cruising boats being built under 30ft and the big areas of development are in the 40ft plus range. Excel, and Earls Court before it, are for new boat exibitors, nor secondhand and brokerage which is, I agree, a very large and important part of the market.

YM is not supporting Excel in preference to Earls Court. Did you actually read my email or did you just assume it would be a load of adverting inspired puff to be ignore?

In 90 per cent of issues of YM we publish a boat test on a new boat, usually under 40ft, plus a secondhand test of an afforable older design. We also do regular reviews of the secondhand market in various sectors. But boat tests are a small part of the YM editorial output every month.

How have we left our readers behind with articles and columns such as Libby Purves and Tom Cunliffe, Nigel Calder and Bill Anderson, the Sailing Skills section, Skipper's Tips, Any Questions, Windvane Wonder, home waters and overseas cruising in mainly small and affordable boats, practical articles of boat care and maintenance, port guides and pilotage information, product tests, basic boat handling and sail trimming techniques? And thats just some of whats in the current issue. That's what YM is about and it's what it has always been about.

So in response to your numbered points:
1) Excel is more boat and less show than Earls Court - and has been critisised for that too.
2) It is my experience that there are far fewer blazers at Excel now than there were at Earls Court four years ago. There were endless comments about stuffy and unhelpful stand staff at EC - its got nothing to do with the venue
3) The real world in new boat sales is in the larger sizes. EC was losing small boat builders who couldn't afford a London Show long before the move to Excel and the number of companies in that sector has been declining for 10 or 15 years.
4) I have some sympathy here although I can't detect much difference between Excel and EC in this. Having said that, there did seem to be fewer real bargains this year.

I am happy to have an informed argument about the merits of the two shows but please do not accuse YM of promoting one side or the other to please its advertisers because that is not only not true but also offensive to people with huge integrity doing a difficult job to a very high standard.

And don't forget, I've worked for YM since 1980, and been involved with yachting magazines for 33 years so I know how things were and how they are now. At least we no longer send Advertisement Managers off to do boat tests! And that was under the great MG.
 
Actually JJ, whilst you are here you remind me of a point that occurred to me as I trundled along the District Line with my YM on Monday morning. How come we never see Tom Cunliffe on something old & basic, or even on something tiny but fun like a Foxcub? Is it because their his real clients and only Malo & Rassy owners can afford his rates?
 
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And what were all those fashion shows and paratroops dropping from the ceiling that we had to endure at Earls Court

[/ QUOTE ] Forgive the drift, but I worked at the Earls Court show in the early seventies. One year, the fashion show was put on by Marks and Sparks, and all the models were staff from various M&S stores (I'm not making this up, honest). As they weren't professional models, they were perhaps a trifle naive and didn't realise that it was possible to see into the changing room from the foredecks of some of the boats in the Pool. The Nauticat 33 was a particularly popular place to be, at certain times of day.

Ahem, so I am told........... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Agree with you about Earl's Court - it's not ideal as a venue for the Show, although its usp is that it's not an impersonal shed in East London. Some may not like it but, in order for the show to go ahead, the organisers need to make a profit and they will only do that by attracting a wide range of visitors, hence a show that has to be all things to all people.

Interestingly, however, the London Book Fair has just gone to Earl's Court, after a disastrous year at Exel, but space is less of an issue for them and books are a bit smaller than Sunseekers /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.
 
Sounds a great show

I've just received this press release from the Earls Court organisers. It sounds great and I love the whole format. This wouild be something very different from Excel. But I just don't believe it will work then and there


WHYTE AND MACKAY EARL’S COURT BOAT SHOW FORMULATES INCLUSIVE VISION

Unique Show Will Embrace the Culture of the Past and Innovation of the Future: Will Include Hands-on Activities for Kids, Headline Entertainment and Recognition of Maritime Achievement

Whyte & Mackay Earl’s Court Boat Show said today it will begin to put out details of its inclusive vision next week for its boat show that will be held from 1-9 December 2007. Those attending the Earl’s Court Boat Show will feel at home and find comfort in the entertainment, activities and the business relationships available for them to participate in.

“This show is being designed to be the emotional home of current and future generations of the heartland boating community,” said James Brooke, Managing Director of the Whyte & Mackay’s Earl’s Court Boat Show.

The Earl’s Court Boat Show will feature secure activities for children of all ages, which will allow parents and children alike, to pursue their own meaningful maritime interests. Another unique feature will be the recognition of maritime leaders of the past and present. Each day will culminate with headline entertainment that will leave parents, children, amateurs and professionals wishing they could stay longer.

“Whyte & Mackay’s Earl’s Court Boat Show will provide a cultural environment that rekindles – the love of the sea – emotions, furthers the sense of alignment with and interest in all levels of boating from rowboats to powerboats to super yachts,” said John Vincent, Co-Founder of the Whyte and Mackay Earl’s Court Boat Show.


“Whether your maritime interests are small or huge and expansive, we will have activities that are exciting to participate in,” continued Mr. Brooke.

Over the next few months, the Whyte & Mackay Earl’s Court Boat Show will begin to provide details about the activities planned that will make this a “can’t miss experience” for parents, children, amateurs and professionals in the maritime culture.


For further information please contact:
Susie Reid Thomas or Sarah- Jane Kurtini at Silver Thread Communications:
t. 020 8875 8444 e. susie@silverthreadpr.com sj@silverthreadpr.com

www.earlscourtboatshow.com
 
Re: Sounds a great show

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Each day will culminate with headline entertainment that will leave parents, children, amateurs and professionals wishing they could stay longer.

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So we can expect posts complaining about the cost of entry and not wanting to pay for the latest pop tartlet to close the show? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Rick
 
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