Ym article on double injector pump failure.

[rotrax]

Hi, I have just re-read the double engine failure article in the current issue of YM. As a 45 year mechanic with some, but not all experience of diesel engines I am sceptical about the conclusions drawn by the unfortunate owners. I am sure Northampton diesels are competent at their work otherwise Perkins would not recomend them as injection pump repairers. I find it hard to believe,after my workplace diagnostic experience of similar units that a visiting engineer can pronounce the pump has failed. I was once assistant manager of the largest Lucas-CAV service centre in the UK with responsibility for service repair and exchange unit sales. We had a wonderful diesel test guy named Takis,a Greek Cypriot who would put any suspect pumps under test on a special rig and then give a detailed report on the individual cylinder outputs and injection pressures of the unit. It is not clear if this was carried out at the first failure in france-the pump seems to have been condemed after it was dismantled. After the second failure it seems that the owners have jumped to a concusion supported by another engineer who has condemed a very expensive component without any bench testing. If, as the owners suspect the modern low sulphur fuel with ethanol additive is causing the failure, have we not had sailors reporting on this and other boating forums with similar stories? My feeling, without knowing all the ins and outs is that £500.00 is not enough money today for a full overhaul of a precise and internaly delicate injector pump. I would certainly insist on a bench test and report before spending any more cash on what appears to be a convinient diagnosis.With reconditioned injector pumps costing upwards of £1500.00 it is worth knowing all the facts. There is a suggestion that the problem is injector pump siezure. This is invariably caused by water or foreign bodies in the fuel,but appears to be discounted by the fact there is no evidence of either in the water trap or filters. Perhaps we will find out in a later edition how this expensive problem was resolved.

 

[vyv_cox]

I agree, and have sent my comments to the authors via YM. I await their response.

To blame the low sulphur levels of the fuel, without actually knowing what they were, is clutching at straws. If that was the cause then a good injector mechanic would have spotted the evidence immediately. I have a simple philosophy in diagnosis - investigate the easy possibilities first. They seem to have done the opposite.

 

[Bilgediver]

Hi, I have just re-read the double engine failure article in the current issue of YM. As a 45 year mechanic with some, but not all experience of diesel engines I am sceptical about the conclusions drawn by the unfortunate owners. I am sure Northampton diesels are competent at their work otherwise Perkins would not recomend them as injection pump repairers. I find it hard to believe,after my workplace diagnostic experience of similar units that a visiting engineer can pronounce the pump has failed. I was once assistant manager of the largest Lucas-CAV service centre in the UK with responsibility for service repair and exchange unit sales. We had a wonderful diesel test guy named Takis,a Greek Cypriot who would put any suspect pumps under test on a special rig and then give a detailed report on the individual cylinder outputs and injection pressures of the unit. It is not clear if this was carried out at the first failure in france-the pump seems to have been condemed after it was dismantled. After the second failure it seems that the owners have jumped to a concusion supported by another engineer who has condemed a very expensive component without any bench testing. If, as the owners suspect the modern low sulphur fuel with ethanol additive is causing the failure, have we not had sailors reporting on this and other boating forums with similar stories? My feeling, without knowing all the ins and outs is that £500.00 is not enough money today for a full overhaul of a precise and internaly delicate injector pump. I would certainly insist on a bench test and report before spending any more cash on what appears to be a convinient diagnosis.With reconditioned injector pumps costing upwards of £1500.00 it is worth knowing all the facts. There is a suggestion that the problem is injector pump siezure. This is invariably caused by water or foreign bodies in the fuel,but appears to be discounted by the fact there is no evidence of either in the water trap or filters. Perhaps we will find out in a later edition how this expensive problem was resolved.

I had similar thoughts however I do remember an episode up here with a Perkins engine fitted with a rotary distributing fuel pump which seemed to cause an awful lot of problems before it was fixed by lucas after several attepmts.. I have never worked on one of these pumps so have no idea what the problems of setting up are..

 

[Malish]

With you on this too; I thought the article was pretty lax, blamed equipment without actually proving fault (my students do the same with lab equipment.. it is usually not the equipment's fault). Aside from this case, I think there is a strong argument for visitng the premises of diesel injectors & pumps refurbishers to hand over the items and try and get a feel for the place. We have a local chap who is excellent, his premises spotless and he will always take the time to explain the problem he found (usually linked to inferior quality pattern parts being substituted to save a few pennies or not using a decent fuel filter).

 

[DownWest]

Not read the article, but had some duff service from the local Ford agent. Turbo 2.5 in an LDV. They 'diagnosed' it on there test stuff as injector pump failure, without the engine running. Need an exchange... not one available. So they rebuilt via a local specialist. Refitted and running OK, gave a 6 month europe wide warranty. €2,400. bill. A week and 2000km later, same symptoms. Local Ford agent (another country) refused to look at it. Honda agent cleaned the contacts and internals of the remote electronic pump control unit. Worked fine, and still does.
As said, knowing the people concerned is essential. After that, I wouldn't have a pushbike fixed by the Ford agent in Saintes, esp. as we told them it didn't sound like the pump was at fault.