Yards and repairs in Turkey

[Mambo42]

Good evening,

Am kind of new here, so perhaps good idea to do a small introduction. We own a Defever 49, built in 1979, which is currently lying in Corfu, Greece. Normally we spend about 7 to 8 months on the boat, roughly beginning of April until the end of October / November (depending on weather) sailing the waters from Croatia until Turkey.
We have done quite a bit of work on our boat since we bought it, had to install new engines (long story), are now re-wiring the boat, installed a large solar array, complete new Victron installation, upgraded to 24 V, prepared the boat for Lithium batteries and partially upgraded the interior (rest to come).

We still have a few things to do and one of those things is installing stabilizers. But instead of having that done in Greece I am thinking of having it done in Turkey. Why Turkey ? First of all they are apparently better mechanics (and better motivated) than there Greek counterparts, second you don't need to pay VAT (at least that is what I am told).
However, I have been told that, when you leave the EU with your EU registered boat with VAT paid status, you would lose this VAT paid status as soon as you cross the border. When you come back into the EU you have to re-apply again, which does sound a bit strange to me. When I take the boat from Corfu to Croatia, pass through Albania and Montenegro I would also leave the EU and then also lose the VAT paid status ? If anyone has more information I would appreciate it.
I have been going into the history of this forum, but could not find any current information about certain places where to perform this work. I hear boatlift Bodrum and D-marin Didim are good places. Does anyone have experience there ?

 

[Boathook]

Welcome to the forum. This might be better in the motorboat part as it would seem to a motorboat that you have, seeing you mention stabilisers.
Worth adding yours and the boat location to your visible details as that can effect answers and until you are a very regular poster few will remember your early posts with details !

 

[Tranona]

The VAT situation is straightforward. Yes, the boat potentially loses its EU VAT status but provided you still own it when you return you can use what is known as Returned Goods Relief which allows your boat to re-enter within 3 years and maintain the status. It is important to ensure that you have good documentation to show that it has EU VAT status. Registration is irrelevant, it is evidence that it has free circulation and as the boat is pre EU VAT days evidence that it has been bought and sold within the EU during its lifetime. You don't say where the boat is registered but in some states registration is also confirmation that that the boat is considered VAT paid. Ensure that when you leave the EU you notify customs and ask them what you need to do when you re-enter to claim the relief. While the rules are EU the implementation is the responsibility of individual states and as you may know some local customs often have their own view on what the rules are and how they are applied.

Just a note of caution - in theory you could be subject to VAT on the work carried out outside the EU so it would make sense not to mention this as a reason for going to Turkey when you leave nor when you return.

Hope this helps.

 

[Norman_E]

I thought a 1979 boat was pre VAT?
One point about Turkey. Though labour is relatively cheap and I was always able to find good workers when I had my boat in Turkey, imported parts can cost more than they would in the EU. As anywhere, there are good and bad firms doing work, and finding a local surveyor or experienced boat owner who knows who to employ (or avoid) is a very good idea.

 

[Irish Rover]

As always @Tranona has explained the situation with regard to Union goods status and RGR very succinctly. The only thing I would add is that entering or crossing international or non EU sea areas while moving between EU ports does not technically constitute taking your boat out of the EU.
As regards having your stabilizers installed in Türkiye my understanding from another forum is you indend to source particular stabilizers from the manufacturers or their agents in Türkiye and to have the work carried out by them. If that is so I'd be inclined to ask them to recommend a port or marina for the work. Location may have a big bearing on the cost of their labour, travelling time etc.

 

[Tranona]

I thought a 1979 boat was pre VAT?

It is but if it was in the EU in 1992 when the single market was established it would be "deemed VAT paid" and therefore had free circulation. It is that status the OP seeks to maintain and he can do this by using RGR relief when he returns with the boat. My suggestions are to ensure he has the evidence of the status before he leaves.

 

[Mambo42]

Welcome to the forum. This might be better in the motorboat part as it would seem to a motorboat that you have, seeing you mention stabilisers.
Worth adding yours and the boat location to your visible details as that can effect answers and until you are a very regular poster few will remember your early posts with details !

Thanks for the tip, but apparently I cannot add anything to my personal information until I have posted more. So as soon as I am allowed I will enter it.
I still have to figure out how everything works on this forum, the format is slightly different, so my apologies if I screw it up a few times, Still trying to learn (LOL).

 

[Clancy Moped]

We had a lot of SS work done in Marmaris, fantastic job, furling top swivel repair not replace, very much a make and mend, not replace attitude.

 

[Mambo42]

@Tranona

I have the original contract of sale where it clearly states that the VAT was paid, that one I keep on the boat, so can always show it if necessary. Also have a written statement from the broker who sold me the boat at the time that VAT was definitely paid.
We have done Greece - Albania - Greece a few times for fuel (tax free in Albania) and that never was a problem, but I also never checked if our status had changed.
The way it looks now is that we will probably combine it with the winter berth, in other words we will end our season (beginning or mid November) in Turkey and then pick up the boat again in March the year after. Assume that more people do that, so hope that is not going to be problematic.

 

[Mambo42]

@Tranona

Our boat is a 1979 Defever which originated in the Netherlands, so VAT must have been paid at that time. But as long as they accept the statement on the contract it is fine with me.

 

[Mambo42]

@Irish Rover,

We spoke indeed on the other forum and thanks for pointing me to this forum !
Since that Fleming went out of the window I decided to contact the producer of the stabilizers immediately and have been in contact with the agent in Turkey during the last few days. He explained me they will do the installation themselves and they have the experience. Spoke with an owner of a boat with those stabilizers in the US and he told me that it is very precise work, so am happy the agent will take care of that.
But the hull reinforcement and some electrical work can be done by yard personnel. Since my boat is now on the dry in Corfu am actually thinking to have all the electrical wires be pulled now, so that all is ready when I get to Turkey.
The agent suggested D-marin Didim or Bodrum Boatlift, but am currently in D-marin Corfu and cannot say am really happy with the way that place is run. Facilities are OK, but the mechanical side is one big mess. Makes me a bit weary for D-marin Didim. Perhaps they are great, but like to hear some positive news of people who have been there.
It would be nice to have it done in May or June, but can't fix a date at this moment, too many uncertainties at this moment, so will settle for the end of the year. That way we can enjoy one last time rocking and rolling on the sea !

 

[Tranona]

@Tranona

I have the original contract of sale where it clearly states that the VAT was paid, that one I keep on the boat, so can always show it if necessary. Also have a written statement from the broker who sold me the boat at the time that VAT was definitely paid.
We have done Greece - Albania - Greece a few times for fuel (tax free in Albania) and that never was a problem, but I also never checked if our status had changed.
The way it looks now is that we will probably combine it with the winter berth, in other words we will end our season (beginning or mid November) in Turkey and then pick up the boat again in March the year after. Assume that more people do that, so hope that is not going to be problematic.

Solid VAT evidence such as a receipt is rare on old boats simply because it was irrelevant pre EU single market. That is partly why the pre 1985 "deemed VAT Paid" status was part of the accession agreements. But of course that was all a long time ago and life goes on. You are right boats move all the time in and out of the EU, particularly to Turkey and do not experience any issues, but it is sensible to be aware of the rules in case you do get questioned. The subject is particularly sensitive for UK boaters because even when we were in the EU VAT status was often an issue because the UK regime on records was particularly lax with no compulsory registration of boats and VAT payments meaning the only documentary evidence was the original invoice, but no legal requirement to keep it! So over the years there have been some issues, particularly in Greece. Even worse now we have left the EU and many UK boats now have EU VAT paid status by virtue of being located in the EU on 31/12/20 but without any documentary system to record that, just the terms of the Withdrawal agreement. However, none of this should worry you with a clearly long term "EU" boat.

 

[Clancy Moped]

Sorry, I forgot to add we were in Netsel marina, and we also had all the soft furnishings re done and a new spray hood, again workmanship spot on.

 

[Irish Rover]

@Irish Rover,

We spoke indeed on the other forum and thanks for pointing me to this forum !
Since that Fleming went out of the window I decided to contact the producer of the stabilizers immediately and have been in contact with the agent in Turkey during the last few days. He explained me they will do the installation themselves and they have the experience. Spoke with an owner of a boat with those stabilizers in the US and he told me that it is very precise work, so am happy the agent will take care of that.
But the hull reinforcement and some electrical work can be done by yard personnel. Since my boat is now on the dry in Corfu am actually thinking to have all the electrical wires be pulled now, so that all is ready when I get to Turkey.
The agent suggested D-marin Didim or Bodrum Boatlift, but am currently in D-marin Corfu and cannot say am really happy with the way that place is run. Facilities are OK, but the mechanical side is one big mess. Makes me a bit weary for D-marin Didim. Perhaps they are great, but like to hear some positive news of people who have been there.
It would be nice to have it done in May or June, but can't fix a date at this moment, too many uncertainties at this moment, so will settle for the end of the year. That way we can enjoy one last time rocking and rolling on the sea !

Didim is not too far from me and I've visited the marina there a couple of times. It's somewhat remote from the town so it wouldn't be a great base for liveaboard. I've no experience of having work done there. As I told you I'm in Setur marina in Kuşadası. All the workshops there are private entities just renting facilities from the marina. As far as I'm aware the situation is the same in D Marin in Ðidim and most other marinas in Türkiye. So you could have a situation where the mechanical contractor is a well run, reliable operation and the electrical contractor is the exact opposite or vice versa. I get my work done in Kuşadası and I'm generally reasonable satisfied - would I recommended any of them to a friend - probably not.
I've never heard of Bodrum Boatlift.
I'd still recommend you rely on your stabiliser guys to guide you and point you in the direction of favoured contractors - or maybe even ask them for an inclusive price for everything and let them subcontract.

 

[Irish Rover]

Sorry, I forgot to add we were in Netsel marina, and we also had all the soft furnishings re done and a new spray hood, again workmanship spot on.

Netsel is one of the 12 [I think] marinas which belong to Setur marinas - same company I am with in Kuşadası. Marmaris is definitely an excellent place to get work done as there are many independent suppliers and contractors based in the town which means choice and competition. This is certainly not the case in Kuşadası or indeed Didim or Bodrum.

 

[Mambo42]

Thanks for all the tips, Marmaris I have seen on a video, did look like a good place.
Will avoid Kusadesi then, don't want to run into the same mess as in Corfu. They all claim to know what they are doing and in the end they have no clue. Is truly annoying.
Bodrum Boatlift I also never heard of, there is a place called Yat lift (found it on Google), so hope that is the same. But there are 5 or 6 yards in Bodrum, so lots of options.
The price the agent gave me is excluding the hull strengthening and excluding extra electrical works (pulling of the cables). Connecting the cables is something they will do.

As for the VAT status. Let's hope the Greeks are not going to make any problems when the boat returns in that part of Greece. Here in Corfu they don't ask for VAT statements when you come back from Albania or Montenegro.

 

[Clancy Moped]

As an aside, dentistry is very cheap if you need new gnashers.

 

[Irish Rover]

As an aside, dentistry is very cheap if you need new gnashers.

Yeah, or a new pair of knockers or a Brazilian butt.

 

[Irish Rover]

Thanks for all the tips, Marmaris I have seen on a video, did look like a good place.
Will avoid Kusadesi then, don't want to run into the same mess as in Corfu. They all claim to know what they are doing and in the end they have no clue. Is truly annoying.
Bodrum Boatlift I also never heard of, there is a place called Yat lift (found it on Google), so hope that is the same. But there are 5 or 6 yards in Bodrum, so lots of options.
The price the agent gave me is excluding the hull strengthening and excluding extra electrical works (pulling of the cables). Connecting the cables is something they will do.

As for the VAT status. Let's hope the Greeks are not going to make any problems when the boat returns in that part of Greece. Here in Corfu they don't ask for VAT statements when you come back from Albania or Montenegro.

It's a big problem in Türkiye - too many chancers out to make a quick killing taking on jobs they don't have a clue about. Don't get me wrong. There are excellent yacht builders and traditional boat builders here - at least as good as you'll find anywhere in the world. The problem is locating the right company for the job you want to get done. Your requirement is specific and specialised and that's why i still think you should pump your stabilizer guys for recommendations. Sorry I can't be more help.

 

[Tranona]

Thanks for all the tips, Marmaris I have seen on a video, did look like a good place.
Will avoid Kusadesi then, don't want to run into the same mess as in Corfu. They all claim to know what they are doing and in the end they have no clue. Is truly annoying.
Bodrum Boatlift I also never heard of, there is a place called Yat lift (found it on Google), so hope that is the same. But there are 5 or 6 yards in Bodrum, so lots of options.
The price the agent gave me is excluding the hull strengthening and excluding extra electrical works (pulling of the cables). Connecting the cables is something they will do.

As for the VAT status. Let's hope the Greeks are not going to make any problems when the boat returns in that part of Greece. Here in Corfu they don't ask for VAT statements when you come back from Albania or Montenegro.

Feel for you having kept my boat for 10 years in Gouvia. Fortunately I had a friend who helped me dealing with them. Port Police though were hugely unpredictable.