Yachtmaster training South Africa

[Happy1]

I am seriously considering popping over to Durban in September to get some experience in sailing, and whilst at it doing my yachtmaster training. I have been offered a 10 week course, which on completion should give me the qualifications below. I can't see any problem with this as it is just for my own use and experience, but is there anything that I should consider before sending the cash out there? I know it is sailing, but I can do a conversion course at UKSA to Yachtmaster Power on my return. I know that I am new to boating but this is a course for beginners like me to fast track the years normally required to get these miles, & would it be good experience before getting a bigger boat?

Sensible replies only please /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

YACHT HAND
YACHT SKIPPER
COASTAL SKIPPER
YACHTMASTER

SHORE BASED: Theory and navigation to Yachtmaster level

VOYAGES: Return voyages to Richards Bay, East London and Bazaruto Island - giving in excess of 2500 nautical miles

S.T.C.W. 95: Marine Fire Fighting, Marine First Aid, Personal Safety & Social Responsibilities, Sea Survival - (MCA Recognised)

VHF MARINE RADIO LICENCE

REFIT SKILLS: * Anti-fouling * Sanding * Varnishing * Filling / fairing * Painting * Basic engine maintenance * Cleaning * Teak deck maintenance * Basic fiberglass repairs.

GENERAL * Tender handling * Passage planning * Line handling / coordinating * Watch keeping * Yacht victualling


R.Y.A EXAMINATION - WITH COMMERCIAL ENDORSEMENT CAPE TOWN

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know" <font color=purple>

 

[Guest]

Post deleted by danfoley

 

[Robin]

Well said

Unfortunately experience takes time to accumalate, a one off 2,500 miles is just one trip same as 60 mls to Cherbourg. My first sailing was on the Tall Ships in 1962 with 4 weeks on a Bristol Channel Pilot Cutter, I really knew little more after than before, though it was the start of an addiction that has lasted ever since.

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[Happy1]

Hi, thanks for your comments, and I am fully aware of some peoples views on this type of course. As I said I want to get experience ASAP, not potter about for 4 years on sunny days. I also do not want to gain the experience for any commercial use at this time, but just to make my boating safer for my young family and myself. What I do not understand is why when you have passed an independant exam, set and examined by the RYA, are you not fit to be above competent crew on your boat, I do find this a bit childish (no hard feelings please).

If I can get 2,500 miles under my belt, plus have the academic qualifications required by the RYA, then surely this is what they set as the Yachtmaster criteria, if you pass, or otherwise they would not qualify you. I have limited experience of yachts, in fact I have only really been drunk on them /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif as a visitor in a marina, but the course is designed to start from scratch. I am already studying my Yachtmaster theory, which from what I have read already is common sense and pretty basic stuff, nothing that you need to be a brain surgeon for. But I can read all day and night but I would not be getting the practical experience, so what have people got against going for an extended holiday, getting an amazing experience and coming back a wiser person. I would hope that I would return a lot wiser than a fairweather sailor who has pottered around the Solent for the last 5yrs with blinkers on.

What is it that upsets you really, is it the fact that you have not done it, or the fact that these courses fast track what could achieve what would have taken you 5 years to achieve? Anyway I won't be sailing a yacht in the UK, they don't appeal to me at my young age just yet, but the experience would be interesting, and may give me an indication as to whether it suits. I would be transferring to yachtmaster power on my return, the reason being I will be getting a bigger power boat in the future with further distance capabilities. I would feel much safer venturing over to France for a day having done the 10 week course in SA, than trying to do it without. At the end of the day can it really do any harm at all?

Thanks for your input /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know" <font color=purple>

 

[Moose]

Happy, How many times have you had to calculate the time and height of the tide for a standard port? How many night hours do you have? How many passage plans have you written? How hard are charts to read from all the lines,crosses and numbers you have written on them? How many times have you seen the difference the wind speed and direction makes to the height of the tide? How many times have you got to the boat without the keys? How many times have you seen a massive great ship displaying an All round Red light over a white over a red and known what it means? How many times have you scraped into the marina kicking up all the mud because you tried to cut it too fine (and then known to wait a little longer for the tide next time) How many times have you bashed the boat trying to get it into its berth? How many times have you written down East instead of West (and vice versa) when writing a lat and long? How many hours have you done? How many times have you misjudged the speed of a boat crossing you and got a little close? How many weather forecasts have you tried to write down as they are rattled off on the vhf? How many times have you lined up on the wrong transit? How many times have you been scared on your boat? How many times have you got to "somewhere" and there has been no berths so you have had to rattle off a new route and race off somewhere else in the middle of the night to find somewhere to anchor? How many times have you been caught out in weather that was worse than you thought?
The above are mostly mistakes/skills that you gain experience(sp? how ironic/forums/images/icons/smile.gif from every time you do them, that is what you need for the YachtMaster not a fast track to get a piece of paper that means nothing unless you have dropped your car keys in the marina and learnt from the mistake by buying a cork keyring e.t.c! You gain experince by making mistakes and learning from them, not by spending 10 weeks in South Africa doing everything perfectly (on a yacht???/forums/images/icons/mad.gif) No1 Moose and I are taking our YM in the next few weeks because we have done (most) of the above and feel that we might as well do it to make sure we are doing things right and to get the piece of paper that we have "earnt" in the last 10 months by doing 2555 miles about 500 of which are night miles and 150 of which are when we got caught out in some bad weather and to cut the cost of my insurance before I have to renew it/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif Because we have gained experince we no longer go out when there is a risk of the wind picking up to a F9, it wasn't pleasant but you wouldn't know that would you?

READ TCM'S ARTICLE IN MBM (OR MBY) IN THE LAST ISSUE, IT IS ABOUT EXPERINCE


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El Alce

 

[Happy1]

Error, duplication

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[Happy1]

Sorry, but I don't operate like that. You may wish to learn from mistake after mistake after mistake, but that's your choice, I am me and I want to prevent as many of the most silly mistakes by learning from others, from being taught, but no doubt quite a few from my own miss judgements. The course is there to teach you, had you done the course you would not have half of that list. What I do not understand is the way that some people get it into their head that just because they have done things wrong for years that it makes them better, now that is utter nonsense. There are people out there with no safety gear because they want to start sinking and want to learn from that, so they will then go and get life jackets and other gear. That is not clever IMHO. Ten weeks on a boat is bound to get me some experience, or I have slept right through it. If at the end I satisfy an RYA instructor that I am competent in every aspect of the YM practical exam, and have also completed and passed the theory, then what makes you any different to that standard that they have tested and require for that bit of paper. I want the experience, and if I can get a bit of paper at the end to confirm what standard I have learned up to, so be it. I don't want to go commercial, I just want to be safe, without going through the massive list of errors that you have posted. IF you had got some training early enough perhaps you would have avoided most of those, now would that have been a good or a bad thing. Should you have to smash up a dozen cars before taking a test? nonsense! Nobody says that after taking the test you are the worlds best, what they say is that you are competant to hold that licence. As for 10 solid weeks not teaching you anything, well that is nonsense. You can obtain your private Pilots licence in three weeks in Florida, is that any different to someone who has taken 2 years at 2hrs a month.

What I don't understand is why people get so up tight about it, for goodness sake you would think that people would praise others for getting off their arse and getting out there and doing something. You will only get the practical experience by getting out there and doing it so what's the big deal, I'm up for it if I can wangle the time to do it. I am sure there will be chances for experiences out there that you will never have experienced pottering up and down the Solent in safe waters on auto pilot /forums/images/icons/wink.gif The course is being held in the real Ocean, where real men are made, why not join me for the experience /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

I think it is all to do with people that wish they had done some more training in the first place, before having to waste time and risk their lives by lack of knowledge and silly avoidable mistakes.

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know" <font color=purple>

 

[vyv_cox]

Dear Happy,

Please don't take this comment the wrong way, although I feel absolutely certain that you will.

You asked a bunch of experienced people for advice about your plan. You received two superb replies that explain perfectly just what is wrong about these intense courses. I found myself in perfect agreement with these comments from yachtsmen who have evidently gone along a learning curve very similar to my own.

Your response was then to tell them why they were wrong and your intended action was right. It is clearly your prerogative to take whatever action you wish, but in that case why ask for advice in the first place? I suggest you re-read both of the posts above and start to think positively about the advice given.

The truth is that we learn by doing, not by being shown how to do. The tricky parts of boating occur at the beginning and end of passages, not in the middle. Your 2500 mile journey is just a classroom that happens to be moving and will have only one beginning and one end.

Vyv

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[Happy1]

Hi Vyv,

Don't take me the wrong way, I am just interested in why people do not think the course is any good. I haven't had a good reason yet other than it's better to go and make your own mistakes. I would understand that if you expected to go and work commercially then you would need more experience perhpas, but for me for pleasure surely it must be a brilliant way of starting off. Only one person so far has understood my reasons, but I am taking note of what people are saying so that I can make a decision. Would it be different if I was to do the 10 weeks and not get any certificate, would that make people feel better? What is it about the Yachtmaster word that gets the heckles up? Surely the RYA will only pass those that it feels have made the grade to hold the certificate, that is what is confusing me, are the RYA right or are some forum members?

I have not had that answer yet, just ranting about going and making mistakes for myself, which I find daft. I did some basic Power Boat level 2 training, VHF DSCC and first aid before I even went on my new boat, I can't imagine people with no experience who just go and get on them, but they do! I just see the YM training as the next stepping stone to learning, although 10 weeks solid is a rather big step, but if I can cope with that it must be a plus point as it would take determination, endurance and dedication to complete it, whilst leaving a young family at home. Hopefuly we would be safer for it in our future boating.

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know" <font color=purple>

 

[alant]

If you contact me by e-mail, I can give you the UK telephone number of a guy who used to run a sailing school in Durban.

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[Tiger Rag]

Dear Happy,

Good for you, I hope you enjoy every minute. I get extremely worked up when each year we get the latest influx of "captains" from the UKSA arriving here looking to take their pick from dozens of skippers jobs, earning the vast fortunes the UKSA have promised are available.

The big difference IMHO is an individual's attitude, if like yourself, you realise that you will still have masses to learn and will still probably make a few mistakes along the way, then why not? The only real danger is if you arrive back here with your shiny new YM convinced you now know everything there is to know, which I think is unlikely.

Hope you have fun.

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[vyv_cox]

I don't think that the mistakes are compulsory. The experience in either making them or avoiding them cannot be taught, only learned. I am in total agreement with you that it is better to learn how to do it correctly before embarking upon potentially hazardous passages. Whether this is best done by embarking upon a 10 week intensive course or by reading a bit and then sailing a bit is the point at issue. To my mind it is the qualification that is the problem, having a certificate that calls its holder a YachtMASTER is misleading in the extreme. I feel sure that the course in South Africa will be a great experience and that you will learn a lot. Where I, and I think others, have doubts is that people passing this examination might then believe that they know all there is to know, which is a long way from the truth.

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[PerL]

Someone has to agree with Happy. Might as well be me.

What's a Yachtmaster exam? Does it mean that you stop gaining experience? IMHO, the important thing is that you learn something, not that you get a piece of paper with nice stamps.

If you think that you'll learn more from 10 weeks of sailing in SA then do it! Any knowledge gained is good. If Happy1 gets a piece of paper or not, does that really matter? You should do your 10 weeks. If you get a RYA YM then be Happy1 with it. If their training is accepted by RYA, then that's quite frankly not your problem. Do you think less of your driver's license because someone said your driver's school was crap?

When I did my offshore Yachtmaster (no idea exactly how that translates into RYA standards) i didn't consider myself nearly enough ready. I thought I would get the releveant experience eventually and that no harm could come out of getting the training. I've never regretted it, although I still have respect for people with lots of experience but no formal training.

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[Happy1]

Pm sent

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know" <font color=purple>

 

[Happy1]

Ah, now that is better, that is exactly what I wanted to hear. You see, I see this as a fantastic way to start off on the right track, but you are right that the YM exam may lead people to believe you are an old sea dog, BUT if the RYA have decided on a minimum criteria, and you reach that, who is right and who is wrong.

You can do an exam to become a member of the Institute of advanced motorists, that can be started the day after your basic driving test and lasts a few hours spread over a few weeks, you can then put a lovely badge on your car telling everyone you are and advanced motorist! Perhaps all certificates are nonsense, but from what I have seen I would rather someone have at least attended the course and been examined than not at all IMHO, whether it be motoring or sailing.

I must say if after 10 weeks someone said you have reached the RYA level for YM, would you like a certificate, I am not likely to say, No thanks, although some on here believe I should, but that's me. I am not going to wave it the next day at an employment agency, it would most likely go in a frame in my hallway to impress all that enter my home /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif Plus I would get far more respect on here, and Moose would have to call me Sir /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

Joking apart, I really think more people should do more training, I have seen horror stories out there, and I have only been at it 4 months, although 1 year was spent training, researching and getting valuable help and advice from these forums and Ribnet.

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know" <font color=purple>

 

[Rob_Webb]

Reading all the correspondence below, you have clearly made up your mind already, Happy 1, so why not just do it?

You clearly disagree with at least 50% of the advice offered to you from some very experienced people because you see yourself as 'different'. There is nothing wrong with this and you should be commended for having the courage of your convictions.

But when you get to SA, I hope you adopt a slightly different, more open-minded, attitude to the folks out there who offer you good advice - otherwise if you adopt the same approach as you have here, I predict an already questionable exercise will become just a 10 week holiday with a bit of sailing thrown in - and that you won't get half what you expect to from it.

Good luck.

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[max]

If you just look upon this as 10 weeks spent learning stuff on a boat rather than 10 weeks sat in an office thinking about being on a boat then fine. If the instructor then judges you fit to award a certificate also fine.

The real point was made ( i think) by Vyv and that is that it is when you depart or arrive that things tend to go wrong. 100x25 mile trips will provide far more learning than 5x500 mile trips. This doesn't need to be about learning from mistakes but working out what to do when one or more factors ( tide, wind, other people etc) just aren't as you expect - that's when experience counts.

Its also a sad fact of life that things on boats break/go wrong. Being taught to clear the air out of a fuel line in a class room is one thing , doing it for real in the dark in a force 6 is quite another. Or knowing how best to weigh up the options when a lobster pot/fishing net fouls the prop in an onshore wind with a lea shore close by etc etc.

At risk of upsetting everyone - in all of the above situations its experience of actually dealing with these kind of problems for real that counts rather than having a certificate of competence, however it has been obtained.

Enjoy the 10 weeks if nothing else for the sheer pleasure of being out on boats or learning about boat stuff. I wish I could do the same.

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[DeeGee]

I think an earlier response put their finger on what the problem is - not mistakes, but practice. The 2500 miles is intended to indicate how much practice you have had at all the saily things. Now, a passage of 2500 miles can be done single-handed (turning a blind eye to sleep!), as their is only monitoring, sail changing and watching to be done (in principle) - you might not even have to tack. Whereas the practice of boathandling in close quarters to other boats, in channels etc, plus the directing the actions of a crew to achieve these things, is what is expected of the 2500 miles, plus the passage planning involved in a multitude of trips - AS SKIPPER! I think Moose's point is not that you have to make mistakes, but that you must practice to perfect.

I think the pilot's licence on solo hours implies a fair number of flights (rather than one transatlantic, an improbability, surely?) involving repeated take off and landing, filing of flight plans etc. The analogy is sound.

If your course involved 10days, with 20 passages, of which you had to be the skipper, nobody would be <font color=red>advising</font color=red> that it is not such a great idea.

IMHO


<hr width=100% size=1>Black Sugar - the sweetest of all

 

[sailbadthesinner]

Re: here here

there is too much on this board of time spent before the mast more valuable than training
i met a bloke who did zero to hero with uksa
he knew he technically qualified but acceted that he still had alot to learn
i think it is utter nonsense to say one should wait ywears before tackling this or that
some people have years of experience
only problem is it is southampton water to yarmouth and back with odd trip to poole.
go for it happy

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=red>if guinness is good for you. i must be very very good</font color=red>

 

[Guest]

Post deleted by danfoley