Yacht values

Blount

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If I was to sell my yacht in the current market, I imagine I would have to assume that prices had fallen by 25% or more over the past 18 months. However by looking at some of the current asking prices, this is clearly not accepted by vendors.

In the world of residential property, for some years it has been possible for anyone (for a small cost) to verify the actual sale price of houses via the Land Registry. This makes the valuation of property much more accurate.

I wonder whether it would be possible to have a voluntary database of yacht or marine craft sale prices available to all on a pay by view basis?

If one could consult such a database, it would save an enormous amount of time in yachts being offered at unrealistic prices only to languish on the market unsold for months on end.
 

lw395

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The trouble is, imho, a 5 yr old yacht is not like a 5 year old car, values rightly vary hugely from one example to the next, as the amount that could be spent to get a boat into perfect condition is very variable.
Some overpriced-looking used boats are worth it.
It may be that the top end of the market holds up better than the bottom, because of comparison with a new boat vs values not a large multiple of annual running costs?
Yer pays yer money....
 

MrCramp

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Not worth the time or the hassle. You look at a boat, do some research on other options, and then you bid at a price you would be happy to pay. Two years ago a mate bought a Westerly, origional asking £38kish, reduced to £33k, bought it for £28k.

Son just bought where the normal asking price is £7500 to £10000, paid £4750.

Loads of boats are advertised for a long time before they sell and second hand prices are falling. It is easy to pick up a bargin in todays market conditions, you just have to be prepared to bid low, and OK you might get a couple of rejections but someone will be desperate enough to sell.

Don't be put off by Brokers who say "We don't think that is a realistic offer". Tell them to do their job and put your offer to the vendour!! (Best to put that over nicely). Just like buying a house.

What someone else was daft enough to pay for a similar boat is irelevant.
 

matelot

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The boat market is much smaller so whether you can drive down the price depends very much on how you narrow the market. If you are happy with a Bav 36 then you could easily make an offer on 10 of them and see which owner cracked first. Want an HR 34 and since there is seldom or than 1 or 2 on the market at any one time, you wont be able to pull that trick.

Added to which there definitely has been continental interest in UK boats of certain makes and age. So again HR sterling prices have gone up if anything whilst Moodies Westerlies and old boats seem to have gone down.
 

Tranona

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Welcome to the forum

This subject has been much debated here of late for obvious reasons.

As others have said the market is very narrow - few buyers and few sellers except on a small number of volume boats. Boats also vary enormously in equipment and condition, plus many have long production runs so one boat could be up to 10 years older than another.

Asking prices therefore fall into a band, usually +/ about 15%. For example Moody 31s were discussed here recently. About 15 boats on the market prices £30-40k. Typical of popular production boats.

For there to be a sale there must be a willing buyer and a willing seller who agree. Nobody is forced to buy a boat, but just at the moment some may be forced to sell which may result in transactions at lower than the normal band. However, not sure actual prices have really fallen that much as most sellers are also potential buyers and may not be able to buy if they don't get the price they want. Many, I think are therefore not even trying to sell as they prefer to keep what they have.

On the other hand some are forced to sell so it is possible to get a "bargain", but often they are not the desirable boats!
 

Judders

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A couple of boats in my marina went recently for no more than a third of what they would have been a couple of years ago, but these were at the bottom end of the market where a years berthing would be more than the boat would be worth and I therefore assume the owners wanted to get shot of them.
 

jbweston

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[ QUOTE ]
. . . If you are happy with a Bav 36 then you could easily make an offer on 10 of them and see which owner cracked first. . .

[/ QUOTE ]

Just a word of caution. If you have more than one offer out at once, and (say) two get accepted, you will have contracted to buy two boats. Unlike houses where you bid 'subject to contract', usually boat offers are going to form binding contracts at the moment of acceptance. The bid remains open for acceptance until it's rejected or you withdraw it, unless you time limit it when you make it.

Therefore if you want to play one seller off against another, it's safer to do so consecutively, saying something to the effect that there are several boats your are intending to make an offer on, your offer on boat one is open for 24 hours (or whatever period you specify) and if not accepted in that time it lapses so you can bid on another. Same result, but no chance you'll end up with three happy vendors all accepting your offers and threatening to sue you for three purchase prices.

Also if you are doing this it may be safest to make the offer in writing or by email, or at least keep a note of exactly the terms on which you make the offer, in case the broker/vendor comes back after your time limit purporting to accept the offer and you have to prove it was time limited.
 

matelot

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I think there's a very real problem at that end of the market Judders. One of my clubs has a yard full of tatty old boats from the 50s and 60s - boats that are never launched . Owners cant sell them and how do you dispose of them? We had one owner take a saw to a 27ft Cutlass and then take the bits to the dump - but the dump wouldnt now accept them. So an old boat is rapidly becoming a liability not an asset. Just like old cars cow are.
 

Skents

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I've heard brokers say that larger boats (particularly with offshore cruising potential) are less affected by the British economy as the low pound makes them very attractive to Euro and Dollar purchasers.

But, at the end of the day, the sale comes down to two figures....what the buyer is prepared to pay and what the seller is prepared to accept.
 

TamarMike

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[ QUOTE ]
One of my clubs has a yard full of tatty old boats from the 50s and 60s - boats that are never launched . Owners cant sell them

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds interesting, where is it & where are they advertised?
 

Blount

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Very interesting comments, thanks.

'Morgana' mentions that a database exists for the brokerage community so clearly THEY find it of use.

I am sure, if it was possible to produce one, it would be of use to vendors and saver a lot of time wasting on overpricing. I speak as a retired estate agent who saw (and still sees) a great many overpriced house on the market that do nothing other than clog up the system.
 

holderone

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<u>I've heard brokers say that larger boats (particularly with offshore cruising potential) are less affected by the British economy as the low pound makes them very attractive to Euro and Dollar purchasers.</u>

At one level I think this is true but I have been watching the Oyster used web site for months now and its clear that that many boats just arn't selling and the owners are bringing their prices down all the time. Especially as the lead time on new Yachts are getting shorter by the day.
 

Pete7

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[ QUOTE ]
Sounds interesting, where is it & where are they advertised?

[/ QUOTE ] My builder just picked up a free 22 foot GRP yacht from a Gosport yard. Needs a little work but nothing beyond DIY stuff. Think it was advertised in the local free ads. However contacting the yards direct might be a good idea. I would drop into the conversation that you need somewhere to store so they can see ££££s, rather than a dead space.

Pete
 

Sequoiah1

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We bought our last boat using exactly the process that JB outlines, the offer with a broker was subject to another viewing that had not been finalised and in fact got cancelled
once, hats off to the broker for willing to try to make the deal for the vendor of the boat that we did not end up with, we bought the boat that we had had the cancelled viewing on, even better for the broker a month or so later we ran into someone looking for the type of boat we had put the offer on and put him in touch with the broker. That guy bought the boat and two west country sailors got the boats they wanted in the end................ sorry a ramble but this arrangement worked for us, and the broker by being understanding and practical eventually got a sale
 

Richard10002

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[ QUOTE ]
Just a word of caution. If you have more than one offer out at once, and (say) two get accepted, you will have contracted to buy two boats. Unlike houses where you bid 'subject to contract', usually boat offers are going to form binding contracts at the moment of acceptance. The bid remains open for acceptance until it's rejected or you withdraw it, unless you time limit it when you make it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is there any reason why an offer for a boat cant be "Subject To Contract" ?
 

jbweston

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Well, as a retired solicitor who has to warn you I don't now practise and haven't got insurance for you to sue me . . .

I don't see why you can't make an offer subject to contract, but anyone who knows will think it isn't worth as much as an offer for the same amount on RYA contract terms, simply because you can back out if you feel like it rather than only for the good reasons set out in the written contract. Also you can dilly and dally rather than being on the contract timetable.

This assumes that you are subject to English law.

Also bear in mind that 'subject to contract' works well for land because most land contracts need putting in writing to be enforceable, whereas an oral contract to buy a boat is fully effective. So you would have to be careful to make it plain that your offer very definitely wasn't one which was open to be accepted to make a binding contract without more ado at that point.

See small print*




* Small print. Of course the law could have changed since I was last up to date with it. E & OE.
 
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