Yacht recommendation please

[Paulc33]

Morning all. I’m looking to buy a yacht for an extended cruise from the South Coast to Israel (done in chunks over a few seasons). Most of it will be done two handed with my wife but may pick up the odd crew for longer more challenging passages.

Probably about 38 foot, budget around £100k and would quite like something with a turn of speed but not so much it’s not comfortable and stable.

I was thinking of an older X37 but any other recommendations gratefully received.

 

[Norman_E]

On your budget don't buy too old a boat, because you want to sail it, not spend your time replacing worn out parts. Unless you are an experienced sailor you should be looking for a well looked after cruising yacht, not something that was designed with racing in mind, and which will probably have had a lot of wear and tear because of it.

 

[Tranona]

Welcome to the forum

Almost impossible to recommend a boat for somebody else. There is nothing unusual about your requirement and there is a huge range (potentially) of boats that would suit. If you are buying in the UK then such boats are in short supply so the best you can do is to see what is actually available for sale when you intend to buy and choose one that you fall in love with - which may well be very different from what you originally thought.

You don't say whether you have looked already, but suspect that your £100k will not go as far as you think if this is the total budget to get a boat prepared for such a long term project. You will be looking at boats over 20 years old and the upgrading and preparation costs are likely to take a big chunk of that. Don't know if you have sailed the Med but suspect you will find "performance" in the sense of speed under sail as less relevance than a good engine and comfortable living in hot climates. You rarely see boats like the X37 in that part of the world as their qualities which are valued in the more demanding sailing environment of northern Europe are of less value.

Good luck with your search.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Theres a reason why the French love their catamarans. Over here they are often derided for failing to live up to expected performance, and a perceived lack of seakeeping qualities. They work in the med though.

 

[Tranona]

Not very popular though because of the berthing problems. and £100k won't buy much catamaran of the more modern cruising type.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

And heres the other multihull problem. Entrenched belief. It’s worse than battery cars. Excuse the short rant, I’m having a weekend of it.

 

[Blueboatman]

So a small electric car spotted on the aft deck of a large French electric motor catamaran draped with electrifying women would cause mass apoplexy and heart problems across the forums ?
I reckon so !

 

[Chiara’s slave]

So a small electric car spotted on the aft deck of a large French electric motor catamaran draped with electrifying women would cause mass apoplexy and heart problems across the forums ?
I reckon so !

Someone would be sure to point out that the ladies didn’t have big enough batteries to perform for as long as they could.

 

[Blueboatman]

Someone would be sure to point out that the ladies didn’t have big enough batteries to perform for as long as they could.

They use front loaded, silicone based, performance enhancement technology to bring the clients up to speed faster and away ..

 

[Tranona]

And heres the other multihull problem. Entrenched belief. It’s worse than battery cars. Excuse the short rant, I’m having a weekend of it.

Nothing to do with entrenched belief. The OP has £100k and that is not enough to buy a modern cat with the capability of a 38' monohull cruiser.

The growth of sales of multihulls, particularly cats has been huge in the last 10 or 15 years, but at a different price point in a different market.

 

[xyachtdave]

I’ve not looked at prices of X37’s recently but assuming £100k gets you an early 2000’s model in good order.

Personally I’d avoid anything covered in teak or with a blue hull, they do look nice but you’ve got an inevitable expensive headache coming your way.

You could also get a newer similar sized AWB for the same money that would do all you could ask of it too.

Boats are a bit like houses in terms of age and maintenance, a 30 year old boat with a thick folder of receipts for work completed could be a better prospect than a 10 year old one without.

There’s no right or wrong boat, just make sure it’s got that beautiful ‘row away factor’ in your eyes, then you won’t mind chucking considerable amounts of money at it.

Every year.

 

[dunedin]

Based on where you are headed, might it be better to buy a boat already in the EU, and with EU VAT paid status? Certainly useful if already go some Med kit - Bimini, solar panels etc.
The bit of your cruise from UK to the EU is the shortest and boring bit

Unless you are an experienced sailor you should be looking for a well looked after cruising yacht, not something that was designed with racing in mind, and which will probably have had a lot of wear and tear because of it.

Whilst the X332’s were and are often raced hard (though still great boats) I don’t think most of the X37s were generally raced significantly.
They are a performance cruiser but with a lovely and practical wood lined interior. Great boat for sailing across the Med rather than motoring.
A few around near your price range - including Ireland (EU and nearby) or Portugal (on your route) - X-YACHTS X-37 2006 Used Boat for Sale in Faro, Portugal, Portugal

 

[Baggywrinkle]

In your position I'd look at something like this and spend a bit on new sails .... been sailing in the med for over a decade now on an AWB and you will spend far more time getting cooked alive than sailing in a good breeze - and more time at anchor than underway. Living space is essential as are easy access to the water and plenty of shade IMO.

2000 Beneteau Oceanis 411 Racer/ Cruiser Segelboote Kaufen - YachtWorld

 

[Tranona]

Buying a boat for use in the Med has got a lot more complicated since we left the EU. At the start the choice of suitable boats, both in range and quantity for UK based buyers has shrunk dramatically. Then you cannot ignore the limitations imposed on a UK boat in terms of where and how you use it in the EU, then what you do with it when you have finished your project. If the crew is non EU resident that adds another layer of complication. OP has not mentioned any of this.

Back to type/make of boat. A 38-40' AWB of early mid 2000s would do the job nicely. Really is no need to go for a "premium" boat as what "extra" they offer does little to enhance the experience and in many ways actually reduce it. There is a decent choice of this type of boat in the UK because they sold very well when new, so the numbers are there. However the number actually for sale at any one time is small. In 2015 when I sold my Bavaria 37 there were probably 15 or 20 36/37/38 on the market, now probably 5 (and at asking prices 15-20% higher!). You also have to consider when looking at prices most will need at least £5-10k spending on them to make suitable for the Med - bimini, solar, bigger batteries, cooling anchoring in addition to the usual expenditure a 20 year old boat needs.

 

[dunedin]

Back to type/make of boat. A 38-40' AWB of early mid 2000s would do the job nicely. Really is no need to go for a "premium" boat as what "extra" they offer does little to enhance the experience and in many ways actually reduce it.

That really does depend on how much the OP enjoys the actually SAILING bit.

There is no doubt that for some, particularly who enjoyed racing sailing dinghies, there is a real pleasure in a boat that sails well. And in particular can sail efficiently in light winds and upwind, when everybody else is motoring.
The X Yacht the OP is looking at, or an Arcona and similar, do sail materially better than the average AWB - and for some that is what sailing is about, particularly in light winds of the Med.
Similarly why some buy high speed trimarans etc. But agree not for most who just want a flat by the sea.

 

[xyachtdave]

The link from Dunedin above is a perfect example if you want an X37, get it bought OP!

I’ve limited experience of sailing in the Mediterranean, a couple of deliveries and a charter holiday.

I chartered a similar sized Dufour to my X Yacht, obviously it wasn’t quite as quick or point as high but we used the limited tweaking available to get the best out of it.

In all honesty I thought I’d spend a week being frustrated by it but it went really well and appeared to be reasonably well screwed together too.

Would I have had more fun on something that went 1/2 a knot quicker and cost significantly more, probably not.

I’d echo the shade, easy access to the water etc mentioned above, the longer lower booms of smaller performance boats, don’t lend themselves well to adding a Bimini you can sail with up.

Thankfully being too hot isn’t often an issue in Kent.

 

[Tranona]

That really does depend on how much the OP enjoys the actually SAILING bit.

There is no doubt that for some, particularly who enjoyed racing sailing dinghies, there is a real pleasure in a boat that sails well. And in particular can sail efficiently in light winds and upwind, when everybody else is motoring.
The X Yacht the OP is looking at, or an Arcona and similar, do sail materially better than the average AWB - and for some that is what sailing is about, particularly in light winds of the Med.
Similarly why some buy high speed trimarans etc. But agree not for most who just want a flat by the sea.

That is true, but as Baggywrinkle says the proportion of "sailing" time is very small once you get past Gib (from the UK) and the features of AWBs become more relevant. A passage from one end of the Med over several years such as the OP is planning will involve an awful lot of motoring, anchoring marina/town quay berthing and outdoor living in 30 degree and more heat. Not what Scandinavian boats are designed for. The only ones you see are there because the N European owners took them there and many discover the limitations. Of course some people accept those limitations. AWBs are not "flats by the sea". Plenty are used as long distance cruising boats and liveaboards because they are a good value compromise of passage making and living comfortably in the 80%+ time when not moving.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

If the OP just wants to blast from UK to Israel and doesn't want to take in the scenery on the way, then a performance boat may well be the way to go - assisted with bucket-loads of factor 50 sunscreen .

If the OP intends to cruise the med and visit places then it is a different use-case - and a performance oriented boat has certain disadvantages. Rigging boom tents and other forms of cockpit coverings every time you anchor is a pain, and they need to be removed again to get underway. It just isn't possible to fit an effective bimini when the mainsheet and traveller are on the end of the boom and in the cockpit. I can't emphasize enough how important it is to have well shaded outside space in the med, which can be used underway.

The other factor is wind, or lack of it. When a stable high pressure settles then to go anywhere in a reasonable time there is no choice but to motor on the autopilot - regardless of the boat type - this happens quite a lot in the summer months so a nice roomy uncluttered cockpit is also very welcome.

Horses for courses IMO.

PS: Also run this past your crew as they will see most other med boats with swim platforms, biminis, and big cockpits - be prepared to defend your boat choice - my significant other had requirements I hadn't even seriously considered - like BBQ and fridge in the cockpit - and she'd keel-haul me if I didn't provide a transom shower and bathing platform.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

I’ve not looked at prices of X37’s recently but assuming £100k gets you an early 2000’s model in good order.

Personally I’d avoid anything covered in teak or with a blue hull, they do look nice but you’ve got an inevitable expensive headache coming your way.

You could also get a newer similar sized AWB for the same money that would do all you could ask of it too.

Boats are a bit like houses in terms of age and maintenance, a 30 year old boat with a thick folder of receipts for work completed could be a better prospect than a 10 year old one without.

There’s no right or wrong boat, just make sure it’s got that beautiful ‘row away factor’ in your eyes, then you won’t mind chucking considerable amounts of money at it.

Every year.

That row away factor is a b…. I’ve invested at least 3 times what I paid for her over 5 years of ownership but every time I look at her I just can’t help opening my wallet.
Buy the ugliest boat you can find and save yourself a fortune

 

[Norman_E]

In your position I'd look at something like this and spend a bit on new sails .... been sailing in the med for over a decade now on an AWB and you will spend far more time getting cooked alive than sailing in a good breeze - and more time at anchor than underway. Living space is essential as are easy access to the water and plenty of shade IMO.

2000 Beneteau Oceanis 411 Racer/ Cruiser Segelboote Kaufen - YachtWorld

Good choice, the 411 has the space you need for extended cruising, and the Ben, Jen & Bav boats of that size all sail OK if the sails are good.