xchannel and channel islands

[peacefulbliss]

I'm planning to do our first xchannel and channel island cruise this summer and was wondering what people opinions are on what state of tide it is best to go on - springs or neaps.
The plan is to go for 2 weeks so whenever it is I'll hit both. But is it better to go xchannel and through the alderney race and back at springs (crossing between solent and cherbourg) and then have neaps while there or cross at neaps and have springs while in the CI?
Thoughs/opinion/experience very much appreciated.

 

[marklucas]

Going across the Channel, the tides don't really make any difference (assuming your heading from the Solent to Cherbourg), so it's really down to what you want to do when in the Channel Islands.

Personally, I'd go for springs, as:

- you can use the tides to get to places faster
- it may well enable you to go to places which would be marginal otherwise
- going through the Alderney Race with 8-9 knots of tide under you is an experience

However, this will require some careful planning of your route to ensure maximum advantage of the tides. Also, adverse weather could cause your carefully laid plans to come apart - but that would be the case for neaps (although maybe not as serious).

Must admit I've never considered this a factor to choose dates for trips (other than equinocal springs which are great fun - watch the lateral piles in Hamble disappear etc.)

Good luck and enjoy.

 

[djs]

given the choice...

I'd plan to have Neap tides for my time around the islands. My reason being that on my one week of anchoring around Herm and Sark in big springs, there was so much water moving around that even sheltered anchorages were very rolly and uncomfortable.
good luck for the trip - whatever time you go it's a great place to visit.
Dave

 

[Sans Bateau]

Firstly, welcome to the forum.

You have asked some important questions. If the weather is benign for your channel crossing then springs or neaps makes little difference. If however there is a bit of a blow, from say SW, then on the ebb element of the tide, you will have a bigger swell. For a first time I'd go for neaps to cross, if you are away for two weeks, then you'll have neaps for your return as well. It is for this reason that neaps are always chosen for the Scuttlebutt Cherbourg rally.

On our first Channel Island cruise we went into Alderney, crossing from the Needles. This has the benefit of making timing easier for the trip down the Alderney race, dont wait until the ebb has started, be on your way down the race at the start of the ebb.

 

[VicS]

I dont think in all the times I have been across the channel we have ever considered the relative merits of springs or neaps.

We have simply gone when we wanted to.... often Bank holiday weekends!

You do have to be more careful not to get swept somewhere you were not planning to go at spring tides..... down the race instead of to Alderney for example.

The times of the tide may well be more important than whether it is a spring or a neap. You may for example want to do as much sailing as possible in day light in which case you want the tide going in your direction during the main part of the day.

You need to always remain flexible. If wind and tide are against you go somewhere different. You have to accept too that you might not be able to return on the date you intended.
( Dont ask how I know that being stuck in Barfleur for best part of a week of strong NE winds is not advisable)

Most of my channel crossings have been from Chichester. Only once do I recall going via the needles... and then bad vis trapped us in Yarmouth for several days .

 

[cliffdale]

Hi
And welcome!
What is the boat you are crossing in?

Also what experience do you have?

I think you need more advice than springs or neaps about the crossing.

Cliff

 

[Tranona]

Agree there are no clear advantages one or the other, except that on neaps the adverse affects of tide are less - but you lose the benefits you can get from strong favourable flows. Arguably first time across is better at neaps because the penalty of getting it wrong say on the approach to Cherbourg is less.

The imprtant thing is to be accurate as you can be in your timing, particularly round the islands, but there is masses of information available to help you.

 

[Twister_Ken]

I'd plan the crossings for neaps. As Galadriel mentions, wind over tide in the channel can be uncomfortable, verging on nasty, even in a 4 or 5. The last thing you want to do is frighten yourself on day one, and then have everyone apprehensive about the return trip.

 

[John_Silver]

One tip I've found very useful if heading straight into Guernsey as opposed to crossing to Alderney is to go West of the Casquets. Reasoning being that if you make better time than you thought and arrive before High Water Dover you'll still make some progress south. If you arrive late,even at max springs, you won't get as bounced around as you could in the Race. Cuts you a bit of slack in case the wind drops or rises!

 

[marklucas]

So a whole host of options - some differing, but all with some sound reasoning behind them.

Welcome to passage planning!

So start from the basics - what do you want to achieve in the trip, are you going to anchor overnight vs. marinas, are there must visit ports?

Once answered you can get the charts and tide tables out.

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

I have crossed the channel many times from the Neddles to France or the Channel Islands.

Never once have I had the luxury of considering the neaps/springs question.

The weather has always dictated departure.

If this is your first time I would pick the right wind and wave height conditions, preferably less than F5 with less than 1.5 m waves and then the tide will only be departure time issue.

 

[rib]

if /when you get there if you are there on big springs,there are some nice caves on sark worth looking at only there on springs thou(thay are there all the time but you can only get to see them on springs)and each island has its own charm good choice

 

[peterb]

A lot depends on the extent to which you want to use marinas.

At springs HW St Peter Port is about 7:00 (GMT, am or pm), at neaps it's about 1:00. The marina is open at about 2-3 hours either side of HW. So at neaps you can't get out until 11 am, and you can't get back in after 3 pm. At springs you must get out before 9 am, but then have a window of between 5 and 9 pm for return. Similar timings apply for Beaucette and St Helier.

For day sailing between St PP and St H at neaps you get only about 4 hrs to do a 30 mile trip. The tidal stream for much of this time is running easterly or northerly, and isn't helpful. At springs, though, the window is more than 12 hours long. Similar things apply going from St H to St PP. If you are planning on using marinas then it's generally better to go at springs.

PS Provisioning in Guernsey is now more difficult. There used to be a very good indoor market, just above the marina. It's now been redeveloped, and is run by the Coop, with few competitors. Last time I went there I was asked for £50 for a leg of lamb. The two indoor markets in St Helier are still running, and make a much better place for provisioning.

 

[LadyInBed]

First, welcome to the mad house
If you do have the option to chose your weeks and weather permitting the important point wrt tides is the time of slack water at Cap de la Hague.
It is very convenient that this slack coincides with HW Dover and then starts to flow towards Guernsey.
On Springs HW Dover is around Midday (and Midnight) so I have always found that it is best to go from Cherbourg down to St PP on or about the New or Full Moon which gives me breakfast and a nice morning start from Cherbourg, to pick up the inshore back eddy to get to the Cap at slack.
Note: if you leave Cherbourg on neaps, to get slack at the Cap you have to have a VERY early or late start!
On the return from Guernsey, the opposite applies so it is best to leave around a week later (coming up to neaps). You then have a civilised morning start when St PP Sill opens around HW Dover +5 giving you time to get back up to and round the Cap without catching foul current.

 

[wrr]

Tide Gates

Welcome to world of passage planning! As well as tidal speeds, you need to consider the timing of tides at various places where a contrary tide can even exceed boat speed or create unpleasant, if not unsafe, sea conditions. Thus, if you plan to leave via the Needles and cross during daylight, you will need an ebb in the Western Solent early in the morning. Ideally, you should have enough ebb tide to allow you to leave a day or two later, in case of fog, gales etc.. This tends to mean a neap tide.
However, as already pointed out, if you plan to go down the Alderney Race in the morning light, you will want to leave Cherbourg just before high water so as to use the inshore counter current and the early ebb. This means that you need to plan your arrival and duration of stay in Cherbourg in light of the tide times. Careful tidal planning should allow for a few evenings consuming seafood platters at the Cafe de Paris before a civilised morning departure.
Planning such trips is an enjoyable and productive use of spare time during winter gales (certain commercial operators please note). All your plans can, of course, evaporate due to excess or deficiency of wind, fog etc.!

 

[NDG]

Having visited the C I about 7 or 8 times I would say go for Neaps if you can. Although it doesnt make much difference in the trip across the Channel it makes a big difference when you get there. The Race and other areas like the Swinge are much more comfortable at Neaps, especially if it's a F4/5.

The other big issue is anchoring. Almost every anchorage is subject to rolling swells at Springs, but are much more comfortable at Neaps. Also, think about the length of scope you will be putting out at Springs. Last year we anchored off Jersey in about 7 or 8 m with a 10m range, meaning we were floating in almost 20m at the top of the tide. Without an electric windlass that's a heck of a weight of chain and anchor to lift (I'm still sore)!

The other thing to say about Neaps is that it is sometimes possible (although not desirable) to make some progress against the tide if you are late on your passage and really need to. In some places at Springs its impossible as the rate can run at 5-10 knots.

Nick

 

[LouisBrowne]

Life is far easier at neap tides, especially in the Channel Islands, so, given the choice, I would start the holiday near neaps in the hope that, by the time the spring tides are at their strongest, I would have recovered my sea legs and got into the swing of things.
For the Channel crossing itself I don't think springs or neaps is of paramount importance.

 

[peacefulbliss]

wow! thanks for all the responses and advice. Lots of things I'd didn't even know I had to think about Plenty to consider in these wet and windy winter months.

 

[Twister_Ken]

For the Channel crossing itself I don't think springs or neaps is of paramount importance.

That's probably because you've never been out there at springs with a F6 wind over tide on the nose. On our first Scuttlebutt trip to Cherbourg a biggish HR fell off a wave on the way back, and broke its engine mountings.

 

[JSYmartini]

As a local one of the first things I look at in my passage planning is whether we are on springs or nips (Jersey for neaps). This pretty much dictates where I'm going and what I'm doing.

As mentioned already, spring HW is in the morning and evening, neap HW is at lunchtime.

So no good going to Carteret for lunch on a spring but maybe head down to the Minkies instead. Dry out in the anchorage mid morning, spot of LW fishing then away again late afternoon.

It goes without saying really, the tide can be your friend or your enemy, a spring tide can be your best friend or your worst enemy.